[FRIAM] Few of you ...
Prof David West
profwest at fastmail.fm
Tue Jan 15 14:14:42 EST 2019
There are definitely fuzzy algorithms, just as there is fuzzy logic.
Our CS colleagues could better explain.
davew
On Tue, Jan 15, 2019, at 11:53 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> David,
>
> Is there such a thing as a fuzzy algorithm? I would think that was a
> contradiction in terms.>
> N
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> Clark University
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Prof
> David West *Sent:* Tuesday, January 15, 2019 10:29 AM *To:*
> friam at redfish.com *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...>
>
> *"any military must operate on algorithms" *(Nick)
>
> Not really true. and there is a huge spectrum of "algorithm-ness" as a
> function of military branch, activity, rank, etc.>
> A navy vessel is a machine and operates on algorithms. Humans within
> that machine must be constrained to be as machine-like and algorithm
> governed as possible else the underlying machine falters. Same this is
> true of the quasi-military astronauts in the space station.>
> In the army, soldiers are trained in principles until they become
> second nature and their subsequent behavior is, if successful,
> decidedly non-algorithmic (instead it is complex / emergent). "Plans
> are always the first casualty of war." Plans = algorithms. Read
> General McChrystal's book, *Team of Teams*, to get what I am saying.>
> A fighter pilot 'practices algorithmically' but does not fight that
> way. Commercial pilots fly algorithmically — is what makes the job so
> damn boring — but Schulenberger (tenth anniversary today) did not land
> in the Hudson according to some algorithm.>
> BTW, software developers are supposed to ply their trade rationally
> (i.e. algorithmically) but David Parnas once wrote an excellent paper,
> "The Rational Design Process: how and why to fake it," that put the
> lie to the ideal.>
> davew
>
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2019, at 11:48 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>> Thanks for answering, Frank.
>>
>> As the old song goes, “Then you’re much older than I-yai!”
>>
>> Do you also remember when “They waltzed to a Souza Band”
>>
>> My wasn’t that music grand!
>>
>> Oh, it was more than the pomp Wouk bristled at. It was the removal
>> of discretion, as well. The American military is perhaps better than
>> most in that regard, but any military has to operate on algorithms,
>> and nobody likes to be a node in an algorithm. So, I guess my thesis
>> was that in the second world war we got a double and conflicting
>> lesson: how effective an algorithmic system can be AND how demeaning
>> it can be to be part of one. Two solutions present themselves: 1.
>> Hire mercenaries and 2. Automate. Of course we have done both.>>
>> An officer of your dad’s rank, of course, was an exception and even
>> within that giant system he made big decisions daily, decisions that
>> affected the lives of thousands of people. There is a scene in that
>> same book where an officer is required to make one of those
>> decisions between surely killing 50 strangers or threatening the
>> life of 150 you know that utilitarians are fond of posing. It’s a
>> harrowing scene.>>
>> I wonder what the relation is between a distaste for government and
>> service as an enlisted soldier. That’s not a rhetorical question. I
>> do wonder. I am thinking there is a high correlation between states
>> with high military participation and states with anti-government
>> politics. When a conservative thinks of “government” is he more
>> likely to think of the military?>>
>> Nick
>>
>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>> Clark University
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>>
>> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Frank
>> Wimberly *Sent:* Monday, January 14, 2019 10:01 PM *To:* The Friday
>> Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...>>
>> I read the book but I don't remember that paragraph. As you know,
>> dad was a Naval Officer who achieved respectable rank. I was
>> fascinated by it but he felt that all the pomp and ceremony was BS.
>> If computers are today's sailors, something is lost and something
>> gained.>>
>> Frank
>> -----------------------------------
>> Frank Wimberly
>>
>> My memoir: https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
>>
>> My scientific publications:
>> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
>>
>> Phone (505) 670-9918>>
>> On Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 9:53 PM Nick Thompson
>> <nickthompson at earthlink.net wrote:>>> , I imagine, are old enough to remember this:
>>>
>>> **“The Navy is a master plan designed by geniuses for execution by
>>> idiots. If you are not an idiot, but find yourself in the Navy, you
>>> can only operate well by pretending to be one. All the shortcuts and
>>> economies and common-sense changes that your native intelligence
>>> suggests to you are mistakes. Learn to quash them. Constantly ask
>>> yourself, "How would I do this if I were a fool?" Throttle down your
>>> mind to a crawl. Then you will never go wrong.” ** ― Herman Wouk,
>>> The Caine Mutiny[1]>>> It seems right that the computer was invented by a democratic
>>> society after the largest successful naval campaign in the history
>>> of the universe. The navy was a giant algorithm. Computers are the
>>> conscripted sailors of our generation.>>>
>>> Nick
>>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>>> Clark University
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>>>
>>> ============================================================
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>
> ============================================================
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Links:
1. https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1059565
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