[FRIAM] sensitive, aren't we?

Mon Jun 24 13:01:42 EDT 2019

Fuzzy logic?

This sounds like the distinction between measurement error and systematic
errors?

-----------------------------------
Frank Wimberly

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On Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 10:52 AM Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> Deep philosophical question:  I don't think the nervous system is
> interested in accuracy, per se.  It is interested in prediction.  So, an
> "inaccurate" system that give a better prediction of future events would be
> favored overran accurate one.  The deep question, which I suspect you Wise
> Guys are in a position to answer for me is: to what degree is predictive
> accuracy dependent on accuracy of input.  Now the first intuition is
> "entirely."   In meteorology, they talk about the "initiation of models",
> which I take to mean how good were the measurements that they plugged in
> for today's observations on which they based their predictions of future
> ones.   I wonder what sort of tradesoff exist between getting the original
> points right and getting the model right.
>
> But I note, even as I drown here, how come we wear our retina's
> backwards.  Seems awfully careless of us, doesn't it?   Is there any world
> in which messy input is an advantage, or at least, not much of a
> disadvantage?
>
> Nick
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> Clark University
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Prof David
> West
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 12:42 PM
> To: friam at redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] sensitive, aren't we?
>
> Ah Nick,
>
> because they finely tune the carrier wave (that which you perceive as
> neural noise) in such a way that my quantum signal, being the delicate
> creature it is, can survive multiple synaptic shocks as it moves from
> neuron to neuron — the way you would want a well padded barrel when going
> over Niagara Falls.
>
> davew
>
> (I assume you are wearing your hip boots as standard gear in the MIB.)
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> > David,
> >
> > I will see your "bushwash" and raise you a hornswaggle.
> >
> > Why, my feathered friend, if quantum accuracy is so important, do you
> > wear your retina backwards?  Why do you see through your ganglion
> > cells.
> >
> > Nick
> >
> > Nicholas S. Thompson
> > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Prof David
> > West
> > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 4:24 AM
> > To: friam at redfish.com
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] sensitive, aren't we?
> >
> > Nick said:
> >  "I was taught this fascinating trope in graduate school... yes, THAT
> > long ago.  There is a second shoe, however.  Yes the retina (cochlea,
> >  etc.) is that sensitive BUT the neural noise is much louder than that.
> >
> >  So ... I think this is the right language ... even though the
> > elements  are sensitive to the smallest stimuli possible, the whole
> > system cannot  resolve stimuli that small ... anywhere near."
> >
> > Not to impugn your professors, but bushwah!
> >
> > To make an analogy: the "neural noise" is akin to "junk DNA" just
> > because they had not figured out what signals existed within the noise
> > and how they were transmitted and received does not mean lost signal.
> >
> > While "the system" seldom makes the effort to resolve at quanta scale
> > does not mean that it cannot. (Why it seldom does is whole 'nuther
> > thread.)
> >
> > But, assuming your professors were correct, would it be permissible to
> > ask why the organism evolved the sensitivity only to evolve  the
> > blockade? Or, having evolved the blockade why then evolve the
> > sensitivity? Where is the competitive advantage in having either the
> > sensitivity or the blockade? Or, do such questions tend not to
> > edification?
> >
> > I have seen the angels dancing on the head of the pin, so I know it
> > can be done. Have also consorted with others, directly or
> > intermediated by words, who can say, and demonstrate, the same.
> >
> > davew
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 21, 2019, at 4:32 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> > > David,
> > >
> > > Can somebody forward this on to Mike Daly, whose email I can NEVER
> recover?
> > >
> > > I was taught this fascinating trope in graduate school... yes, THAT
> > > long ago.  There is a second shoe, however.  Yes the retina
> > > (cochlea,
> > > etc.) is that sensitive BUT the neural noise is much louder than
> that.
> > > So ... I think this is the right language ... even though the
> > > elements are sensitive to the smallest stimuli possible, the whole
> system cannot
> > > resolve stimuli that small ... anywhere near.   To do what it does, it
> > > needs to weed out its own noise.  So accuracy in vision is not a
> > > question of accuracy of the elements, but of the ingenuity of
> > > construction.  Note, for instance that we wear our retinas "backwards":
> > > we actually see THOUGH the many layers of the retina because the
> > > light sensitive elements ... the rods and cones ... are at the back
> > > of the retina.  So all that sensitivity of light sensing elements is
> > > rudely cast away in the organization of the retina.  It's like we
> > > are a football players who wear our jerseys inside out but boast about
> the
> > > precision, detail, and color of our logos.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hope you are well.  Where are you well?
> > >
> > > All my Peirce books were lost in the mail coming here, so I have
> > > been focusing on my garden.  Mild, calm June.  May be the best garden
> ever.
> > > But my mind?  Not so sure about that.
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
> > > Nicholas S. Thompson
> > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University
> > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Prof
> > > David West
> > > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 4:15 AM
> > > To: friam at redfish.com
> > > Subject: [FRIAM] sensitive, aren't we?
> > >
> > > Doing some reading on quantum consciousness and embodied mind and
> > > came across these items:
> > >
> > >
> > > https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-human-eye-could-help-
> > > te
> > > st-quantum-mechanics/
> > >
> > > https://www.nature.com/news/people-can-sense-single-photons-1.20282
> > >
> > > (A Rebecca Holmes from Los Alamos Natl. Labs is part of the
> > > Scientific American reported research.)
> > >
> > > not only can the human eye perceive individual photons (and perhaps
> > > quanta level phenomena) "The healthy human cochlea is so sensitive
> > > that it can detect vibration with amplitude less than the diameter
> > > of an atom, and it can resolve time intervals down to 10µs [i.e.,
> > > microseconds, or millionths of a second]. It has been calculated
> > > that the human ear detects energy levels 10- fold lower than the
> > > energy of a single photon in the green wavelength…” Regarding human
> > > tactile and related senses (haptic, proprioceptive), it has recently
> > > been determined that “human tactile discrimination extends to the
> > > nanoscale [ie, within billionths of a meter],” this research having
> > > been published in the journal, Scientific Reports (Skedung et al 2013)"
> > >
> > > interesting stuff
> > > dave west
> > >
> > >
> > >
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