[FRIAM] Abducktion

Fri Aug 7 18:53:51 EDT 2020

Impersonal.  

N

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Edward Angel
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2020 4:43 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Abducktion

Literally it says “it pleases me” which is the passive voice leading to the question who is “it?"

_______________________

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon

Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home)                         angel at cs.unm.edu <mailto:angel at cs.unm.edu> 

505-453-4944 (cell)                                        http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel

On Aug 7, 2020, at 4:30 PM, Gary Schiltz <gary at naturesvisualarts.com <mailto:gary at naturesvisualarts.com> > wrote:

I'm no grammar expert, even in my native English, but I don't believe "me gusta el cafe" is using passive voice. It literally says "coffee pleases me". Comments, Frank? But then, I may be confused about what passive voice is.

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 5:23 PM Angel Edward <edward.angel at gmail.com <mailto:edward.angel at gmail.com> > wrote:

Isn’t it a consequence of the routine use of the passive voice in Spanish as in “me gusta” instead of “yo gusto?”

The passive voice is pretty much gone in textbooks but I occasionally I get objections from Spanish speakers who claim my textbook can’t be serious because I don’t use the passive voice.

Ed

__________

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon
Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home)   edward.angel at gmail.com <mailto:edward.angel at gmail.com> 
505-453-4944 (cell)  http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel

On Aug 7, 2020, at 4:17 PM, Gary Schiltz <gary at NaturesVisualArts.com <mailto:gary at NaturesVisualArts.com> > wrote:

Despite living in a Spanish speaking country for 12 years, I still struggle mightily with Spanish grammar. This is mainly due to laziness on my part, as well as lack of necessity to immerse myself in the language (there are a lot of English speakers here, not to mention expat groups on Facebook in English). Still, Spanish is *so* much more consistent in all respects than English - pronunciation especially. But the reflexive verbs are still somewhat of a mystery to me. I've wondered exactly the same thing that Frank mentioned: does "the cup fell itself on me" and "the pencil broke itself on mf" represent desire to avoid responsibility? Maybe even blame the victim? Ouch! Your nose nearly broke my fist!

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 2:06 PM Tom Johnson <tom at jtjohnson.com <mailto:tom at jtjohnson.com> > wrote:

Or the equally famous Spanish phrase, "The pencil broke itself."  A phrase which you think I would remember.

TJ

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On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 12:55 PM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com <mailto:wimberly3 at gmail.com> > wrote:

In Spanish if you drop your cup you say, "See me cayó la taza".  A literal word--for-word  translation is "The cup fell itself on me".  Some people say this is an effort to avoid responsibility.

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
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On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 9:01 AM Barry MacKichan <barry.mackichan at mackichan.com <mailto:barry.mackichan at mackichan.com> > wrote:

Very much so. We hired a grad student a long time ago (he stayed with us until he retired). He wrote great Pascal programs. He wrote great Pascal programs in C++, and in JavaScript. The effect of your first programming language on style, idioms, and your feelings about recursion and encapsulation.

—Barry

On 6 Aug 2020, at 23:24, thompnickson2 at gmail.com <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>  wrote:

Nah.  He means more than that.  Even ordinary languages predispose users to one kind of discourse or another.  I assume that programming languages do the same. 

N

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