[FRIAM] [in|ex]tensional effects on (English) language

[thompnickson2 at gmail.com]

Eg, “Manchester United are dominating the premier league.”

 

Herewith the entry from Wikipedia.  Clear as mud.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_grammatical_differences#Subject-verb_agreement  

 

n

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of David Eric Smith
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 12:59 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] [in|ex]tensional effects on (English) language

 

I remember the first time I saw this UK/US are/is contrast, and it seemed so weird.

 

It was in an article on Williams Syndrome children, which included some transcript of the babble from one of them.  The babble included “. . . and our bank are . . . “, where the . . . is a bunch of stuff I don’t remember now (shows what catches with me).  The writer of the article mentioned — which was the center of his point — that while there was no semantic sense in the babble, the grammar was flawless, and he had to explain to US readers, the bank (financial institution) is referred to with the plural as a collective noun for its members.

 

I don’t know if all-y’all (singular is y’all) remember 

https://www.withouthotair.com/

but its author takes great joy in his page-margin notes in contrasting “English” with “American” as two distinct languages.

 

Eric

 

 





On Dec 29, 2020, at 12:57 PM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <gepropella at gmail.com <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Eye-tracking study finds depression memes act like visual magnets for people experiencing depressive symptoms
https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.psypost.org%2f2020%2f12%2feye-tracking-study-finds-depression-memes-act-like-visual-magnets-for-people-experiencing-depressive-symptoms-58939 <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.psypost.org%2f2020%2f12%2feye-tracking-study-finds-depression-memes-act-like-visual-magnets-for-people-experiencing-depressive-symptoms-58939&c=E,1,MEp1i36gIPJ9Cd9ihdah2BcW_8BhwoZzXIVetLCl6Qz7Mok2fWefQ-H2s7RxylJljZQ1OVJgcAmyn_y2KlEmzecC9cTSGPZ-nXs-TBNY40dm1KWx_VJNHE9rQqkf&typo=1> &c=E,1,MEp1i36gIPJ9Cd9ihdah2BcW_8BhwoZzXIVetLCl6Qz7Mok2fWefQ-H2s7RxylJljZQ1OVJgcAmyn_y2KlEmzecC9cTSGPZ-nXs-TBNY40dm1KWx_VJNHE9rQqkf&typo=1

"It also seems that this group are less interested in generally humorous memes unrelated to the depression experience,"

That just *sounds* wrong to me. I would've written "this group is". But according to this website: https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.grammarly.com%2fblog%2fis-vs-are%2f <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.grammarly.com%2fblog%2fis-vs-are%2f&c=E,1,GLtZF7meehi99IVm85KMUp49wGAW6Wf47Xl3ZH4YWWBuDsR9AHMJVIK4CaEPeR9AR-QAAOji9IlYf4QrQVHT0l8B9O6Jn3ZcPIUMtTduWgI1mBJB3UcE8Q4i&typo=1> &c=E,1,GLtZF7meehi99IVm85KMUp49wGAW6Wf47Xl3ZH4YWWBuDsR9AHMJVIK4CaEPeR9AR-QAAOji9IlYf4QrQVHT0l8B9O6Jn3ZcPIUMtTduWgI1mBJB3UcE8Q4i&typo=1

"But even in American English, a collective noun can take are when you need to emphasize the individual members of the group."

Perhaps the important thing, here, is that this "group" was classed together from the outside. The grouping of "depressed people" is very susceptible to criticism and, I'd bet money, derived from external self-reported expressions. So by saying "this group are", the authors might be expressing that, even though we've grouped them thusly, that grouping is extensional/phenomenal, not intensional/generative. So they really should retain their plural status and not be singularized into the group.

-- 
↙↙↙ uǝlƃ

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