[FRIAM] where are the "patriot hackers"?

Tue Dec 29 16:02:48 EST 2020

I think the first time I listened to John Holland talk about some science project at SFI (as opposed to just being a returning celebrity), he was talking about the problem of credit propagation in the framework he called “classifier systems”.  The issue being that you have a system with many components, all busy, each doing many things of many kinds.  Then some outcomes happen, also in an incessant and heterogeneous stream.  Many outcomes have many “aspects” — not sure what is the best word to use, e.g. my bacterial infection gets cleared but I find the hospital environment cold and unaesthetic, and the doctor is sort of a supercilious ass — and the connection of any outcome to any choice or belief can be cryptic and separated by long time intervals.  How do we propagate credit so that beliefs will be maintained in a way that gives us “least regret” in the long term (to put forth one criterion among several that could be considered)?  Part of that must mean having a sound notion of causation.  Clinical trials are responsible for the bacterial infection’s being cleared; fetishizing wealth and power probably made the doctor more of an ass.  These two are not fungible.  It sounds like it should be a simple problem, but I think it isn’t.

I appreciate the considerable care that Nick put into the way he wrote the below, and also the ability to write at that level.

Eric

> On Dec 29, 2020, at 2:39 PM, <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I think I disagree, Merle.  If we lose faith that there is a truth to be found concerning the matters of which we speak as scientists, we lose everything. When we speak as  poets, etc., of course, we relax that constraint.  But what defines science for me is that there are truths to be found.  I am pretty sure Glen also disagrees with me, and DaveW and maybe Kim, so you are in good company.   If anything characterizes the assault on society of the last 4 years, it is the undermining of faith in the notion of convergent inquiry.  The first domino to fall was anthropology, in the sixties, which led to a mayhem of political correctness and purges that destroyed the field.  Sure we have to respect people equally.  Sure we have to treat their metaphysical non-sense on a par with our own.  But some assertions are bat-shit crazy, and provably so, and if you entertain the notion that all assertions are equally true, you might just as well drink the kool-aid and climb the  ramp into the space ship, so far as I am concerned.   I will wave you a sad good bye because we everybody’s shoulders to the truth-wheel if we are to survive. 
>  
> Nick 
>  
>  
>  
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
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>  
>  
> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 1:15 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] where are the "patriot hackers"?
>  
> "True" things about the world beyond the reach of science must be included in the expanding dialogue, like a mountain that is also an earth being, or forest animals that are spirit masters of their worlds. We can think of them as other-than-humans, but they "exist" in indigenous cultures.  They are only "beliefs" in ours,  but for those of us who are "Animists", they are always present in the dialogue. 
>  
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 9:40 AM uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <gepropella at gmail.com <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> So, I'm once again down in a rabbit hole over whether Dave's (cautiously backed by Kim) idea of a "science of the mind" is reasonable, wherein subjective/reflective techniques like psychedelic drugs or meditation can say "true" things about the world, particularly that may be beyond the reach of science. And there I am reading about Falun Gong <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong>> and its "outlets" like The Epoch Times, which spew constant nonsense, feeding the delusional QAnon narratives:
>> 
>> https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-newest-trump-boosted-viral-maga-star-has-ties-to-the-epoch-times <https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-newest-trump-boosted-viral-maga-star-has-ties-to-the-epoch-times>
>> 
>> And I'm wondering, where are the "patriot hackers" and Anonymous?
>> 
>> What happened to all that rigmarole about protecting the world and the internet from insidious sh¡t like The Epoch Times? Is it that ostensibly white hat members are combating shallow techniques like DDoS so well that the script kiddies who used to claim to be Anonymous are outmatched? Maybe Assange siding with Trump fractured the group? And what about the Jester <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jester_(hacktivist) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jester_(hacktivist)>>, who was arguably more capable than the large majority of hacktivists? Was he hired by the NSA and now works alone in a steel cage? Or has his mind been infected by the attractive conspiracy theories and persecution complexes we dorks are so susceptible to?
>> 
>> I feel confident that some of you have some insight! Please share.
>> 
>> -- 
>> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
>> 
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>  
> -- 
> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
> Center for Emergent Diplomacy
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