[FRIAM] more Epstein fallout

[Prof David West]

Epstein embezzled his wealth and then parlayed those stolen funds into even greater wealth. His predilections existed before he was wealthy.

Wealth removed something - consequences from behaving - rather than adding something - new behavior.

Nick might very well plunge a fork into his hand if there were no consequences for doing so. But what kind/form of 'wealth" would allow the avoidance of consequences that the rest of us might incur from such an action?

Wealth, individual and aggregate, shields people from the consequences of climate change.

Even as poor as I am, I have sufficient wealth to pay the air conditioning bill, the Iceland Air transatlantic jet ticket home, etc. The truly wealthy - and your senators and congress critters - will suffer no consequences right up to the point that our species goes extinct.

Something other than fear of consequences is required to motivate actions "for the good." Epstein needed some kind of humanism/morality — climate activists need some kind of empathy for those who will suffer consequences, including animals and the ecosystem as a whole.

davew


On Sun, Jan 12, 2020, at 11:33 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Also, with regard to Epstein, I don’t know why you presume emotional modeling of the young women. That would motivate a sadism motive. Pure objectification also seems plausible.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jan 12, 2020, at 2:04 PM, Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Nick writes:
>> 
>> "But … just to take the Epstein case … doesn’t that presume that abusing women feels good?" 

>> 
>> I claim it is subjective. A foodie with "developed tastes" has strong opinions on what is good and bad. They may even begin to believe that these good and bad things are more than subjective and that they matter in some universal or culturally-foundational way. Whereas to me, food is fuel and their activity is one of many possible hobbies. 
>> 
>> 

>> Marcus

>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of thompnickson2 at gmail.com <thompnickson2 at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 12, 2020 2:53 PM
>> *To:* 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <friam at redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] more Epstein fallout 
>> 
>> So, the logic seems right.

>> 

>> But … just to take the Epstein case … doesn’t that presume that abusing women feels good? 

>> 

>> I just have never see how that works, 

>> 

>> In the marshland around where grew up, there were these enormous flies, with beaklike mouthparts for biting…Greenheads, they were called. They used to come into our barn at night, and then congregate on the inside of the windows during the day, frantic to get out. I once caught one and took its wings off to see what would happen. I never did it again. It didn’t feel good. 

>> 

>> So, either having great power over people changes the nature of what feels good, OR, there are some people for whom making others feel bad makes them feel good. I would say that these latter folks need to be quarantined. And if keeping people from becoming wealthy is prophylactic, I say tax the daylights out of the rich. 

>> 

>> Nick

>> 

>> 

>> Nicholas Thompson

>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

>> Clark University

>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

>> 

>> 

>> 


>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Marcus Daniels
>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 12, 2020 11:54 AM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] more Epstein fallout

>> 

>> Nick writes:

>> 

>> “Why does the potentiality entail the desire?

>>  I *can* plunge a dinner fork into the back of my hand, right now. 

>>  Surely, you don’t expect me to do so, just because I can.”

>> 

>> The premise is that people do things that feel good, and things that are apparently free from negative consequences.

>> Neither would be true with this use of a dinner fork. It might feel good to plunge the dinner fork into the hand of an impolite dinner guest. Whether that would be free of consequences would depend on the relative quality of your respective lawyers and the physical strength of your guest. 

>> 

>> Marcus

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