[FRIAM] Political compass teest
Steve Smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Mon Oct 12 12:01:54 EDT 2020
Speaking of regionalism...
I just listened to Ben Sasse of Nebraska (R) give his fellow Senators
and those of us watching the Supreme Court Confirmation hearings a
lecture on Civics. Sasse is very articulate and earnest and gave a good
case for treating this (and all Judicial appointments) independent of
partisan politics and religious bias.
Unfortunately he managed to do this without even a single *nod* to the
possibility that the very nomination and rushed confirmation was
partisan and that the selection of this particular nominee is acutely
based in religious bias (supporting the partisan bias).
I don't know Sasse's record well, but Mary (hardcore Lefty) is a native
Nebrasker and her head *can* be turned by his familiarity, style and
delivery, right up until he drops an implied (but not obvious to me)
conclusion that she disagrees with. Fortunately her oldest son (who
writes/edits Bills for the Texas Legislature, but also born, raised,
educated in Nebrasky) is a very well read (esp. in political science)
and very perceptive progressive Liberal (liberal Progressive) who talks
her down from Sasse's charming deliveries, (or up and out) from the
flaws (gaps?) in his rhetoric.
For all of my resentment and distrust of politicians (esp. those trained
as lawyers) I do wish I could have a one-on-one conversation with the
likes of Sasse or Flake or McCain (RIP). Maybe their apparent
reasonableness and rationality and even fairness is an extremely good
act, or maybe they honestly believe everything I hear them say, even
though I cannot draw some of the same conclusions (or do not start from
the same unspoken axioms?).
Mary and each of her children left the enfolding comfort of the western
Nebraska plains and the plainspoken, folksy people whose entire
livelihood is armatured around a wide variety of acutely exploitative
(formerly extractive, and previously just plain hard working people
teasing needed resources from the earth for their American cousins
everywhere). They left because of the parochial, narrow minded,
self-serving views of the people they lived with and grew up with. And
they left behind a yet-more-impoverished (socially and spiritually if
not economically) region in the process. They sorted themselves into
various meccas of liberal thinking and being. Mary left behind
several brothers who she had to unfriend from FaceBook, and then leave
FaceBook entirely (good move in any case) to escape the echo-chamber of
their Trump-trumpeting.
On the flip side, they had the benefit of a very progressive educational
system and a thin smattering of worldly and progressive thinkers in
their communities... 4 year state teachers colleges cum general
colleges that were not only affordable and convenient to get started
with a good liberal arts educations, but staffed with very well
educated, very progressive (if not always Progressive) thinkers who
inspired them to think outside of the boxes they were (somewhat) raised
in. These professors/instructors were part of an extended
upper-midwest educational milieu that, from my (distant) perspective
seems to be top notch. The nieces in Mary's cohort, at least seem to
have come out of the same culture with a strong progressive (and
Progressive) mindset. The nephews are mostly focused on guns, guts,
and glory with god's blessing.
I stumbled my way out of very similar boxes, but without (for the most
part) the kind of progressive higher education system I sense that Mary
had benefit of. The Political Compass test places me pretty solidly
into the Liberal/Liberatarian quadrant and I self-identify that way when
I can... while still holding a strong allergy to the most extreme (unto
smarmy?) Liberal styling of arguments for their positions. I tend to
agree with many of those positions at a fundamental level, but am put
off by some of the gymnastics used to justify them.
Unfortunately I *ache* for a more reasoned discourse, and am therefore
acutely susceptible to the kind of rhetoric that the likes of Sasse and
Flake and others can muster... I find myself *wanting* them to be
reasonable so badly that I overlook the *gaps* in their rhetoric where
they let me (and others) fill in my own blanks with my most hopeful and
generous thoughts. It seems to be some variation on the dog-whistle?
I think Trump's ambiguous (self-contradictory, rambly, ???) style feeds
this well... leaving lots of people room to pretend he either doesn't
really literally mean what he says, or leaving them to pick the parts of
various contradictions that are convenient for their own argument, or
just ignoring all the innuendos they might not like otherwise.
I am feeling fascinated to live in these "interesting times" in spite
(because?) of the stakes at hand. Mary is now into the second volume of
Klemperer's "I Will Bear Witness", a diary of a Jewish scholar married
to an Aryan who survived the Nazi years, and more importantly managed to
keep his diaries secreted away... a day by day, moving testimony to
just how wicked the bulk of the population of Germany could become under
the acutely evil ministrations of Hitler, his malevolent cronies, and
the propaganda machine they built and operated.
The propaganda machine of the Self-Righteous Right seems as
intentionally designed, but not nearly as "smooth", but maybe it is just
Limbaugh and Jones, and Tucker and Sean that I am hearing in their
hysterical rants. Dave (and others) may accuse the Loonie Left's
propaganda machine of being equally malevolent (to the Right's, not the
Nazis') but perhaps slicker than the Right?
- Steve
On 10/12/20 8:34 AM, David Eric Smith wrote:
> So this is metastasizing now, and there have been other decades when
> it wasn’t such a problem, or at least not as overt.
>
> Is that due to demographic sorting? In more prosperous (or even just
> earlier) times, enough people stayed near where they were born that
> cultures got some mix of preferences, and you didn’t have whole
> regions “submitting too much to the authorities in their lives”. But
> when those who wanted out could get out, and did so systematically,
> the ones who stayed behind could create a tailored paradise for the
> preferences that had caused them to stay behind?
>
>> On Oct 12, 2020, at 10:19 AM, Roger Critchlow <rec at elf.org
>> <mailto:rec at elf.org>> wrote:
>>
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/12/trump-voter-authoritarian-research/
>>
>> -- rec --
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 12:27 AM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com
>> <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
>>
>> There’s a page on the 2020 election where they claim, among other
>> strange things, that Warren is a right-leaning authoritarian.
>> If that is true, which I doubt, it says to me politicians are
>> mirroring the electorate in a very obscure way. And I am pretty
>> sure I am not far to the left of Bernie Sanders.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Stephen Guerin
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 8:39 PM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>> <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest
>>
>>
>>
>> ec=-5.75 & soc=-6.3
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 9:18 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I’m more of a libertarian than Dave is? Something MUST be
>> wrong, here.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>>
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,U3OccPSjskXK4svW9X1qk3Vv7E5UwkKy9mLBuwBfoPfJKYxJ6aCBK0PVs7udT_TYGhprp1R603GJlx6xKqM35rw3C-x7J0zwGZ6_tMf3hqMPHZB64xRxPw,,&typo=1>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Prof David
>> West
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 6:39 PM
>> *To:* friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest
>>
>>
>>
>> Econ left/right: -0.88
>>
>> Social Lib/Auth: -6.1
>>
>>
>>
>> davew
>>
>> NOT a Libertarian
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020, at 5:56 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Do we all agree at an insanely high level? Then wtf have
>> we been arguing about all these years. Let’s wait until
>> Glen and Dave take the test before we bury all our hatchets.
>>
>>
>>
>> n
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>>
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,jI9pg2_C34oOCpyabOwNVYM7KJGCPx7H3EupAcE2q9TK2V75UO7IrMX_UOS1TIZ0puSAcbRFu09JGz8yK4gzt6DIJCqNtiA3EEOMsqYT64DoqXJS7TM,&typo=1>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Gary
>> Schiltz
>>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 5:29 PM
>>
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>> <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest
>>
>>
>>
>> I was pretty much dead center in the lower left quadrant,
>> which was surprising to me. I would have thought I would
>> be in the middle of the whole graph.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 4:52 PM George Duncan
>> <gtduncan at gmail.com <mailto:gtduncan at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Jon, I took it. I'm barely left on economics and
>> strongly libertarian on social issues
>>
>>
>>
>> George Duncan
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon
>> University
>>
>> georgeduncanart.com
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fgeorgeduncanart.com%2f&c=E,1,7A1nvLLwvbARh5EsbrcBP_x1ncqDWHW84o2ARPieWFtHxbGsgklMKBqeuNgbEd_czryT4FTxDDbM2mCDHXdJbmd_5-i0Yf4oVpAGGN27uHZ8&typo=1>
>>
>> See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram
>>
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>>
>>
>> My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension
>> between matrix order and luminous chaos.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may
>> not come later. It may then be a valuable delusion."
>>
>> From "Notes to myself on beginning a painting" by
>> Richard Diebenkorn.
>>
>> "It's that knife-edge of uncertainty where we come
>> alive to our truest power." Joanna Macy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 3:22 PM jon zingale
>> <jonzingale at gmail.com <mailto:jonzingale at gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I just took the political compass test and
>> surprise surprise, I am a
>>
>> left-libertarian.
>>
>>
>>
>> Take the test here if you are interested:
>>
>> https://www.politicalcompass.org/test
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.politicalcompass.org%2ftest&c=E,1,e8hAuyhPdtiZ876M9sd6OmWzNeLJXSYR8MHrODvh3vN2g_nLrK21RY_5OBeUJlK4p0Rzh08Ymx64c4LiIgp7JiIDXXzqbbqx3zHFw_W8CPvxLq3_SnjwgA,,&typo=1>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>> --
>>
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