[FRIAM] SIR+HD model in JavaScript + Herd Immunity question.

Steve Smith sasmyth at swcp.com
Wed Oct 14 13:11:09 EDT 2020


Tentative answer to my own question:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ajhb.23512


On 10/14/20 10:09 AM, Steve Smith wrote:
>
> Cody -
>
> Thanks for the nod... though I'm less confident in this prediction
> today than I was back in April... though it is interesting to be
> reminded of what I was thinking (or at least saying) back then!
>
> I think there is a lot more interstate mixing than I imagined would
> result.  The mass attendance at Sturgis is a strong example of
> gather/scatter with no significant contact-tracing...   the few
> attendees in my larger circle only report: "I was there all week and
> there were no outbreaks while I was there... see!  I tole'ya it was a
> Democrat Hoax!".    I think the "return to college" is maybe providing
> some mixing as well, though I think it is better than the post Spring
> Break/Mardi Gras 2020 moments.
>
> I haven't followed up enough on the modeling referenced back then to
> have even the most general idea of how significant the differing
> implied levels of herd-immunity might be.   I remember when some of
> the early broad testing (e.g. whole communities) began and there was
> evidence of more widespread (asymptomatic) infection (via anti-body
> detection) and I thought we might actually be able to establish a
> meaningful level of "herd immunity".    Also the "experiment" that is
> Sweden seems somewhat ambiguous...
>
> I'm wondering if anyone here with more hands-on experience with
> network transmission models has thoughts/opinions/ideas on what "herd
> immunity" means in the context of shifting the shifting valencies as
> individuals limit the number (and significance) of interactions with
> others.   It seems that by now, there must be some studies/models that
> try to address that.   Also the implication of "superspreader" events,
> and what actually characterizes such?
>
> - Steve
>
> On 10/14/20 9:28 AM, cody dooderson wrote:
>> I was just looking back for a previous conversation about herd
>> immunity and came across what seems to be an accurate prediction from
>> Steve Smith.
>>
>>     My post-apocalyptic novel might include a study on this:   What
>>     if the Blue States mitigate hard and fast, in spite of losing the
>>     battle in a few states like high-density, early onset new
>>     york/new jersey,  and reduce deaths (including ones avoidable if
>>     not for overwhelming health-care) but also reduce herd-immunity. 
>>     And the Red States limit their mitigation, take a huge hit in
>>     infection and death (but moderated by mostly being less-dense
>>     states) but come out the other side with better herd-immunity.  
>>     I can imagine fresh border-checks (remember when every state
>>     border crossing had a weigh station for trucks?) to restrict Red
>>     Staters infecting Blue States early on, then later vice-versa?
>>
>>  
>> Cody Smith
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 3:46 PM Steven A Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com
>> <mailto:sasmyth at swcp.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     I'm sure many have seen this... if not scroll to the bottom for
>>     the JS model (you can download/inspect/modify the code if you
>>     like)...   It doesn't stop at SIR but adds H(ospitalization) and
>>     D(eath)...   and is parameterized with sliders.
>>
>>        
>>     https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/25/opinion/coronavirus-trump-reopen-america.html
>>
>>     And the JS (warning,huge with lots of device/browser-specific cruft):
>>
>>        
>>     https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2020/03/16/opinion-coronavirus-model-2/d268775237c095931fe2fae6015c568c0011fd76/build/js/main.js
>>
>>     I don't feel comfortable having a strong opinion about this
>>     beyond echoing what THIS article says about the risk of quick
>>     mitigation followed by return-to-normal *without* establishing
>>     significant herd-immunity.   This author refers to it as "hiding
>>     infections in the future" and makes a good point about staving
>>     off infection too well for too long and getting hit hard next
>>     "cold and flu" season IF we haven't established good treatment,
>>     increased health care capacity, and/or effective vaccines.
>>
>>        
>>     https://medium.com/@wpegden/a-call-to-honesty-in-pandemic-modeling-5c156686a64b
>>
>>     For better or worse, other countries are trying different
>>     mixtures and styles of mitigation and have different levels of
>>     health-care capacity and ability to location-track and shut down
>>     mobility.
>>
>>     While many criticize (or defend) the lax or laggy response of
>>     many Red States, this provides yet another diversity/ensemble
>>     study for the ultimate "model" of all... in this case, the
>>     territory IS the territory, the population IS one big fat analog
>>     computer for calculating the pandemic (the answer to which, is
>>     naturally 42).  
>>
>>     Of course, "scofflaw" communities like the spring-break youth,
>>     the evangelical churches, and states like Georgia with governers
>>     who say "we didn't know that people without symptoms could be
>>     infectious until 24 hours ago!" represent a reservoir for
>>     exposure if they continue to mix, but might end up being a source
>>     of virus resistant.  
>>
>>     https://www.motherjones.com/coronavirus-updates/2020/04/coronavirus-state-social-distancing-policy/
>>
>>     https://faculty.washington.edu/cadolph/papers/AABFW2020.pdf?fbclid=IwAR09JwtQzEkerOGiRXxaiptbyDqGZZ7_7Ullg7UX9qtVDFWumdKZGF8WOzY
>>
>>
>>     My post-apocalyptic novel might include a study on this:   What
>>     if the Blue States mitigate hard and fast, in spite of losing the
>>     battle in a few states like high-density, early onset new
>>     york/new jersey,  and reduce deaths (including ones avoidable if
>>     not for overwhelming health-care) but also reduce herd-immunity. 
>>     And the Red States limit their mitigation, take a huge hit in
>>     infection and death (but moderated by mostly being less-dense
>>     states) but come out the other side with better herd-immunity.  
>>     I can imagine fresh border-checks (remember when every state
>>     border crossing had a weigh station for trucks?) to restrict Red
>>     Staters infecting Blue States early on, then later vice-versa?  
>>     Seems like the ongoing extraction economy in (mostly Red States)
>>     is pretty social-distancy while the more service economy of Blue
>>     States is at risk... though professional and even office work is
>>     nominally quite easily social-disanced.
>>
>>     Mumble,
>>
>>      - Steve
>>
>>
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