[FRIAM] off-label technologies, exaptatiion and exponential technological growth.

Mon Aug 9 14:53:19 EDT 2021

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/delta-variant-most-prevalent/2021/08/08/d1017f0e-f558-11eb-9068-bf463c8c74de_story.html

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On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 1:52 PM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:

> Nice.  But I think my favorite on that list has got to be Rumination
> Disorder.   Such a surprise at a dinner party.  Yes, I definitely know some
> Orthorexians!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
> Sent: Monday, August 9, 2021 9:07 AM
> To: friam at redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] off-label technologies, exaptatiion and exponential
> technological growth.
>
> What I find magical about both cats and people is how plastic we are. The
> point of a regimen is to clamp down against that plasticity ... turn us
> into robots. I'm no Dionysian. But the idea of clamping out all the
> variation that allows us to go off a local optimum to find (collectively) a
> higher peak is a bit disgusting to me, no pun intended. That we have
> supplements that help trigger some of the pathways triggered by fasting is
> a great example, but susceptible to pseudoscience.
>
> Many doctors, physicians' assistants, anesthesiologists, etc. ...
> especially cardiologists, seem so rigorous about their lifestyles they seem
> unhealthy to me. One of Renee's friends and co-workers back in Oregon fit
> the description given for *orthorexia* to a T <
> https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/learn/by-eating-disorder/other/orthorexia
> >.
>
> Brings to mind the quote attributed to Wilde: "Everything in moderation,
> including moderation."
>
> On 8/9/21 8:30 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > A vaccine installs information in the immune system about antigen.
>  Exercise (or fasting) distills into various kinds of cell and signaling
> changes.   (Like in the current example with insulin resistance.)
> Systematic control of the body (and brain) through chemicals or biologics
> isn't possible yet, but many causal relations are understood or at least
> have been tested for safety.    What I find strange is that so many people
> (and not just anti-vaxxers) prefer total ignorance to partial ignorance.
>  I would rather turn a knob to select my weight or VO2 max than have to run
> 10 miles a day.  Not just because it is easier or uses less time, but it
> because it is way cooler.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
> > Sent: Monday, August 9, 2021 7:56 AM
> > To: friam at redfish.com
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] off-label technologies, exaptatiion and exponential
> technological growth.
> >
> > There's quite a bit wrong with this stance. What is "health"? What do we
> mean by "control" or "prevention" (cf endless sophistry about free will)?
> There are clear risks to people like Dr. Sinclair (cf Linus Pauling, Didier
> Raoult, etc.)?
> >
> > But the problematic part of this thread that I think is most important
> is analogous to the Disease Model of Alcoholism and, more generally, the
> shaming of people with behavior or cognitive problems. Now, I'm not an
> advocate for the disease model of alcoholism. But in moving that way, we've
> progressed from blaming alcoholism on a person's moral failings to
> understanding the physiological reward system that drives much of our
> behavior.
> >
> > The claim that obesity and/or a large share of type 2 diabetes is
> preventable/controllable is clearly a problematic claim ... a bit like my
> dad breaking my nose and telling me to "suck it up". If you're fat, you
> must simply be a loser. Pull yourself up and do the work. Now, thank me for
> giving you my tough love wisdom. Pfft.
> >
> > One further issue lies in the privileges most of us (on this list)
> enjoy. Most of the people I know who eat highly processed food are low
> income. Not only is their diet exceedingly difficult to manage because it
> costs MONEY to eat well, but many of them have more than 1 job and often
> work off hours (like night shifts or weekends). Such schedules make it
> difficult to stick to any regimen. And it's not merely diet that suffers
> but exercise too. I'm just barely disciplined enough to exercise 4-5 days
> per week for about 1.5 hours each session. But I exercise in the morning.
> If I sleep past 5am, or have a Zoom meeting before 8am, my exercise session
> is screwed up. If I speed through it, I end up hurting my back, putting me
> out of commission for at least several days. Etc.
> >
> > So, if you are one of the LUCKY ONES, lucky enough to have haphazardly
> fallen into your life of privilege, good for you. But don't accuse others
> of moral failings just because they don't behave the way you behave. That
> road, however it's paved, leads you straight to hell.
> >
> >
> > On 8/8/21 11:31 AM, Pieter Steenekamp wrote:
> >> Prof David West, just confirming, I'm not speaking in absolutes.
> >>
> >> My point is simply that for most of us you can significantly reduce
> future health problems by following a healthy lifestyle. This is not
> limited to but includes severe health problems if you are infected by the
> covid virus.
> >>
> >> P
> >>
> >> On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 at 19:15, Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm
> <mailto:profwest at fastmail.fm>> wrote:
> >>
> >>     __
> >>     Not Pieter, but ...
> >>
> >>     Some small percentage of _*Type II *_diabetes is not
> preventable/controllable with diet and exercise.
> >>
> >>     Similarly, of the 42% of the US population that is obese (9.2%
> morbidly obese), some small subset is not preventable/controllable with
> diet exercise. (My guess is less that 20-25%).
> >>
> >>     I am pretty sure Pieter was not speaking in absolutes.
> >>
> >>     davew
> >>
> >>
> >>     On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, at 8:46 AM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com <mailto:
> thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>     Pieter,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     I am interested in your assertion that metabolic disorders like
> >>> diabetes and obesity are preventable.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     N
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     Nick Thompson
> >>>
> >>>     ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
> >>>
> >>>     https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
> >>> <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:
> friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Pieter Steenekamp
> >>>     *Sent:* Sunday, August 8, 2021 5:16 AM
> >>>     *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
> >>>     *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] off-label technologies, exaptatiion and
> exponential technological growth.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     The CDC reports that among 4,899,447 hospitalized adults in
> >>> PHD-SR, 540,667 (11.0%) were patients with COVID-19, of whom 94.9% had
> at least 1 underlying medical condition.
> https://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2021/21_0123.htm <
> https://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2021/21_0123.htm>.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     My reading of this is that it is mainly preventable conditions and
> my simple conclusion is that if you live healthy you are well protected
> against covid.
> >>>
> >>>     My wife and I got a wake-up call with loved ones that died of
> covid. They were all obese. Our focus is now to live healthy. It not only
> gives additional protection against covid, but against many other causes of
> illness and poor quality of life too.
> >>>
> >
> > --
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