[FRIAM] ivermectin, nope

[Roger Critchlow]

Oh, forgot to clearly identify the irony:   ;-)

Doing diligence on this crap is way exhausting.  I am entirely in sympathy
with your dilemma.

Even if ivermectin does nothing useful, it still may be a useful treatment
in situations where no other treatment is available.  And fabricating
evidence of its efficacy would also be a comfort to the patients and the
medical staff in that situation.   A placebo can be better than nothing, a
placebo with a bogus story behind it can be even better.

-- rec --

-- rec --

On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 12:37 PM Roger Critchlow <rec at elf.org> wrote:

> Pieter --
>
> I looked over the links you listed.
>
> They seem to claim that withdrawl of ivermectin caused the spike in Covid
> cases in India, and also that administering ivermectin caused the end of
> the spike in Covid cases.    Both of these claims are sort of hard to
> evaluate, since I don't see any evidence that anyone has ever distributed
> ivermectin/doxycycline/zinc kits very widely, either before or after the
> spike in infections.  Constructing and delivering kits for 1.366 billion
> people would have been quite an achievement for any economy.
>
> I followed the links to https://c19ivermectin.com/ and found the list of
> ivermectin studies.  The list presented currently claims 110 studies, 68
> peer reviewed, 64 involving control and treatment groups, but it's puffed
> up with another 50 entries which are news clippings, press releases,
> meta-analyses, reviews, and other miscellanea.
>
> I looked an early review article,
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z.pdf, though the pdf is
> hosted at nature.com, it's from a different journal.
>
> The Journal of Antibiotics (2020) 73:593–602
>> https://doi.org/10.1038/s41429-020-0336-z
>> Ivermectin: a systematic review from antiviral effects to COVID-19
>> complementary regimen Fatemeh Heidary1 ● Reza Gharebaghi2,3
>> 1 Head of Ophthalmology Division, Taleghani Hospital, Ahvaz Jundishapur
>> University of Medical Sciences, Ahvaz, Iran
>> 2 Kish International Campus, University of Tehran, Tehran, Iran
>> 3 International Virtual Ophthalmic Research Center (IVORC), Austin, TX,
>> USA
>> Abstract
>> Ivermectin proposes many potentials effects to treat a range of diseases,
>> with its antimicrobial, antiviral, and anti-cancer properties as a wonder
>> drug. It is highly effective against many microorganisms including some
>> viruses. In this comprehensive systematic review, antiviral effects of
>> ivermectin are summarized including in vitro and in vivo studies over the
>> past 50 years. Several studies reported antiviral effects of ivermectin on
>> RNA viruses such as Zika, dengue, yellow fever, West Nile, Hendra,
>> Newcastle, Venezuelan equine encephalitis, chikungunya, Semliki Forest,
>> Sindbis, Avian influenza A, Porcine Reproductive and Respiratory Syndrome,
>> Human immunodeficiency virus type 1, and severe acute respiratory syndrome
>> coronavirus 2. Furthermore, there are some studies showing antiviral
>> effects of ivermectin against DNA viruses such as Equine herpes type 1, BK
>> polyomavirus, pseudorabies, porcine circovirus 2, and bovine herpesvirus 1.
>> Ivermmust beectin plays a role in several biological mechanisms, therefore
>> it could serve as a potential candidate in the treatment of a wide range of
>> viruses including COVID-19 as well as other types of positive-sense
>> single-stranded RNA viruses. In vivo studies of animal models revealed a
>> broad range of antiviral effects of ivermectin, however, clinical trials
>> are necessary to appraise the potential efficacy of ivermectin in clinical
>> setting
>>
>
> The quick read is that ivermectin interferes with viral reproduction *in
> vitro*, but fails to work *in vivo*, for all of these viruses.  It's been
> tried against every virus that's turned up in the last 50 years, had some *in
> vitro* anti-viral activity, but never became an approved treatment for
> any of them.
>
> It must be that the elites are consipring.  That's the only reasonable
> explanation for the facts.
>
> -- rec --
>
> On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 2:28 AM Pieter Steenekamp <
> pieters at randcontrols.co.za> wrote:
>
>> Nick,
>>
>> Thanks for pointing out that my message is not very clear. Let me rewrite
>> it with a change in wording, I hope it's better this time.
>>
>> I believe that the study that Marcus referred to above ,
>> https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid   ,
>> is most probably correct.
>>
>> Help me if I'm wrong. It proves that according to a specific protocol,
>> there are no benefits against covid  in using ivermectin. Does that mean
>> that there are no other prophylaxis protocols that include ivermectin that
>> do give benefits?
>>
>> I'd like to make sense of what's happening in India. According to some
>> (see references below), the use of ivermectin is effective against covid in
>> India. I really don't know how reliable these sources are. Does anyone have
>> better information? I'd like to know.
>>
>> References:
>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/
>>
>>
>> https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-208785/v1/d6ff79a3-d354-4aba-a6b0-4bc123bbd225.pdf
>>
>>
>> https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2021/04/29/when-india-stopped-prescribing-ivermectin-and-started-vaccinating-deaths-shot-up/
>>
>>
>> https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/07/31/india-crushed-covid-using-ivermectin-and-you-can-too/
>>
>>
>> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/05/elites-worried-covid-cases-india-plummet-government-promotes-ivermectin-hydroxychloroquine-use/
>>
>> Pieter
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 at 23:13, <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Pieter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Did you perhaps leave out a link?  Which study?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nick Thompson
>>>
>>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>>>
>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Pieter
>>> Steenekamp
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 14, 2021 12:09 PM
>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>>> friam at redfish.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] ivermectin, nope
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe this study is most probably correct.
>>>
>>> Help me if I'm wrong. It proves that according to a specific protocol,
>>> there are no benefits against covid  in using ivermectin. Does that mean
>>> that there are no other prophylaxis protocols that include ivermectin that
>>> do give benefits?
>>>
>>> I'd like to make sense of what's happening in India. According to some
>>> (see reference below), the use of ivermectin is effective against covid in
>>> India. I really don't know how reliable these sources are. Does anyone have
>>> better information? I'd like to know.
>>>
>>> References:
>>>
>>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/
>>>
>>> https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-208785/v1/d6ff79a3-d354-4aba-a6b0-4bc123bbd225.pdf
>>>
>>> https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2021/04/29/when-india-stopped-prescribing-ivermectin-and-started-vaccinating-deaths-shot-up/
>>>
>>>
>>> https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/07/31/india-crushed-covid-using-ivermectin-and-you-can-too/
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/05/elites-worried-covid-cases-india-plummet-government-promotes-ivermectin-hydroxychloroquine-use/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pieter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 at 17:34, Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid
>>>
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>
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