[FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side

Thu Aug 26 19:59:33 EDT 2021

Makes me think of Rand Paul.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 5:54 PM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:

> A public servant remarked to me that their boss mostly does things to
> pacify unreasonable people.  This in turn encourages more unreasonable
> behavior.   The agency of the unreasonable people is characterized by how
> much disruption they can cause, not by the inherent value of the goals that
> they have.  The goals are just a temporary means by which to demonstrate
> their agency and process their feelings of alienation.   I suggest that
> this neediness at some point becomes toxic and cannot be repaired.   At a
> company, those people get fired.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *David Eric Smith
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 26, 2021 3:16 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side
>
>
>
> Those who seek cooperative or collaborative support, jointly generated,
> from others, should explain themselves to all as contributing a part of the
> joint effort, collaboration, and mutual responsibility.
>
>
>
> The same argument applies to not being exploitative in wage negotiations,
> poisoning backyards that can’t efford to push it off, colonialism, etc.
>
>
>
> I still think that what one doesn’t know is secondary to the point,
> though.  This is all about holding a position that the society you live in
> is illegitimate, and wanting to act out your animosity toward it or
> contempt for it, as a kind of defiant expression of some kind of agency.
>
>
>
> Max Rose, I think it was, had some sort of good comment about this.  We
> have to break out of the death spiral of having this as the motivation if
> we are to break out of the death spiral.
>
>
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 27, 2021, at 4:22 AM, Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Explain themselves to _____? To you? For the purpose of _______?  Securing
> your approval?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>
> They need to explain themselves, and it is entirely appropriate to make
> their lives risky and inconvenient until they do.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 26, 2021 12:07 PM
>
> *To:* friam at redfish.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side
>
>
>
>
>
> Glen is very sensitive to potential misrepresentation/misinterpretation of
> his words, as am I. I merely asked if Glen's sentences, which on their face
> seem to equate anti-vax and stupid, should be interpreted that way. In a
> sense I was trolling him because I know he would not make such a blanket
> and absolute assertion.
>
>
>
> However, the entire tenor of the thread, and the public rhetoric regarding
> people holding anti-vax positions seems, to me, to be grounded in exactly
> this kind of assertion: "if *you* (a person) are anti-vax *you* are
> stupid (and probably a Trumpista or at least a Republican).
>
>
>
> In my  opinion this kind of assertion is wrong, harmful, and, if your goal
> is to increase vaccination rates, entirely counter-productive.
>
>
>
> davew
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, at 10:55 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ wrote:
>
> > I addressed the stupid people vs stupid acts. Dave makes that
>
> > conflation. I don't.
>
> >
>
> > But re: punishment - I also never claimed stupidity should be punished.
>
> > I claimed stupidity should be painful. As a person who inflicts pain on
>
> > myself daily, on purpose, it would be silly to identify pain with
>
> > punishment. Futher, many of us are affected by chronic pain, often of
>
> > unknown mechanism/origin. Sophistry about the problem of Evil
>
> > notwithstanding, chronic pain is not the universe punishing you. The
>
> > story of Job is a stupid story.
>
> >
>
> > We *could* talk about pain as a mechanism for aversive learning,
>
> > though. The chronic pain I suffer from has taught me how to (and that I
>
> > must) moderately meter out my pain in order to avoid greater amounts of
>
> > pain. Pain has taught me a great deal. It's not a punishment in the
>
> > slightest sense of that word.
>
> >
>
> > On 8/26/21 9:44 AM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > It would be good to make a distinction between "punishment" and
> "self-preservation".  There is something incoherent about asserting that
> stupid people need to be punished, because one of the salient features of
> stupidity is an inability to learn from experience.
>
> > >
>
> > > Also, don't we need to distinguish between stupid people and stupid
> acts?
>
> > --
>
> > ☤>$ uǝlƃ
>
> >
>
> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
>
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>
> > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,_gXhctQxZmaJkmKeeWm3dibxB0WMDS9JefrAV4WTSzDGSqdf82GtrPQyLE4qtDXgrdWj13voJdwwCTsKVsoOB7HP1JjjOLHHg1wSszSOYTqtjw,,&typo=1>
>
> > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,UjSlySURNv54_4f1Pob-CF7Y9Yceh380A3sa4BdG_ymNna1Dy7L5EqLoE16qvM8YkV-29I1WOIFEbxHRoExvq6RMxluJGOPbDBNe_W6OPljA&typo=1>
>
> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,Q7aeAPPpi3CKkC4ZSHRmoHFM9BauMvL7MAANDxZxQJSG3WotfJ_1mhVgodYdYCQNUh9BWMCZyeLPYlDDSWOWHmf0T-au8PtClTuaRAPt2PjGZW7I4IF-T4nmo2Lf&typo=1>
>
> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>
> >
>
>
>
> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
>
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,Yr5AWMNuby0nfVW1FtpJBDSREwBbk7co-Km2PzienUnrT6NH0804AP6Vn2_rE7RPr9zjRE7ChyQFf3pHmNxJvhyDaRjw-kRmK1sacx-VJ-LIirl9DHszuC70Mg2x&typo=1>
>
> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,TPIN4uXg5tkG3Houfsb5eoNv6gFxfMuGZdtrS_wBhhVvyBJ70jFSxJS9vBJ1gPMipaZnWECWK2mRX7_Po1Ch9Y6EdGIIewAOm6GRhHNqIFc_jEPNjAIqhbeq&typo=1>
>
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,CLxYDrNZ-Kpm4lesPog-NHXFw1U9f3WoOcFY2FIxMwTds_ofstgJSrFhWeL7GpE03GvmvAU_hTZTsKtYNzqLVjR_NLR0ie8JRMQNZqie3P-txIJW4KeMR2UT&typo=1>
>
> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> un/subscribe
> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,04cZFEwRrxhK7wOXxWOpeUjfn2fKreIAY5BmIBEnO1LffVs1s6CSDZME_HueOXWew9zQN_7XjdpzR7M1RFOQQTZL5YQi0dnXk53vHq0bpsEeJ8fZ&typo=1
> FRIAM-COMIC
> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,YLiUpNkcjGUps3caVUDsumNb9WsTj-QQygki0Ox4SdCp0NFMEbAHOThoDfHEu-zBSGMYhfvSdjVpZuZNwh_E3_rmpOtyeRIlp8OUQmxyEHzyHc0EZzQ,&typo=1
> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>
>
> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20210826/8e992b5f/attachment.html>