[FRIAM] the power of metaphor.

[Steve Smith]

Nick -
> S
>
> It was guh-RATE to see you on vFRIAM today.
>
> N

Sorry to "guh-RATE" on your nerves (just kidding, exercising my "manly
art of deliberate misunderstanding")...  but glad to see everyone (if
but for a moment).  I had *hoped* Glen was going to run the experiment
he suggested earlier this week (even though I didn't fully understanding
what he was proposing).

I was disappointed that the bulk of the conversation seemed to be about
how we all failed to different degrees to obtain fame and fortune.   I
left that argument (with myself) for the most part when I was about 12
and my ego was forming.   I won't claim that I haven't taken minor grabs
for public/private approval and for money off and on, and that I haven't
felt resentful when those didn't come as easily to me as I hoped (and/or
neglected to recognize/acknowledge the bits of both that fell into my
lap).   

I decided early in my life (12ish?) that I needed to (at least try) to
parlay any natural talents I had (like being tall) and cultivating those
I might have been weak in toward the betterment of myself and (expanding
concentric waves of priority) those around me.  That lead me to things
like rejecting the idea of conscription (if not war itself) and lead me
to be a vegetarian-of-conscience as the expanding circles began to
include higher life forms (those with faces or known to play, as some
vegetarians offer).

What I was claiming was that the ego-building/salving pursuit of fame
and fortune IS (part of?) the problem.   I was also (virtue-signalling?)
trying to substitute something like pursuit of fame/fortune with pursuit
of meaningful and important work, but choked on my own awareness that
*most* of the things I am ashamed of in my life were a result of my
*effectivity* on those topics.  I used Mutual Assured Destruction as one
of the goals I helped participate in (joined LANL in 1980 with that in
mind).  I've pursued other "great things" for the "greater good" only to
recognize the myriad unintended (by me anyway) consequences.

I don't know where this line of argument fits next to the one you were
all on when I joined, I like to think it is somehow in opposition or at
least complementary.

Sorry I had to go before I could say more of this in person...

- Steve


>
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>  
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Steve Smith
> Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 11:21 AM
> To: friam at redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] the power of metaphor.
>
> Frank -
>> I am anticipating how I would feel if I saw Trump when he is 
>> desperately afraid as he suffers during his final illness and cries 
>> that it is unfair that he has to die given how rich, talented ...
>> whatever... he is.  Will I remember how much I detested him?  Or would 
>> I feel sad for him.  The latter involves what I mean by "empathy".
> I don't have any problem allowing my imaginarium to include recognizing the dark misery that Trump may experience down deep inside (if he ever looks that direction), and from the general record of who he was as a child into adulthood, I can see (some of) how he wandered/retreated/charged down the path that lead him to where he is today.   I doubt he will hang himself in the oval office (wouldn't that be a sight?) like Epstein did (maybe) in his own cell.   I doubt anyone in the administration has the physical/tactical/moral capability to pull off staging such a thing (nod to the possibility that Epstein was "helped").   That does not mean that I  "forgive" or in any way "bless"
> any of his behaviour, possibly since he was about 8 years old, if then.   Such an act (with or without "help") feels significantly more likely than him resigning gracefully.
>
> I am sympathetic with Marcus' (deliberate?) conflation between allowing for deep, genuine empathy, and allowing the experience to lead me to enable the worst behaviours of the subject of my empathy.   My empathy for Trump is much less well informed (yes, Nick, I said "informed") than my ire.  I may have "cut him some slack" (I think that is a bull/bronco riding metaphoricaldomain) early on out of empathy under the guise of expedience, but I think I'm well beyond that (some years now)?
>
>> I say "would" rather that "will" because I doubt that I will be aware 
>> of his suffering.  After all, I am older than he is.  I am thinner 
>> however.
> I've always thought Tennis was more "heart healthy"  than Golf as "country-club" sports go...   but I think more (sleazy?) deals are made on the golf course.  I think you made a better choice.    I hope that you and Biden both outlive his first term, and get to live in the "interesting times" implied for the 2024 cycle.
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
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