[FRIAM] Talent and Moral Luck - Steelman attempt

[Merle Lefkoff]

Maybe I missed this earlier, but this thread might be more lively if it
considers the latest gender conversation: the fluidity of gender as a form
of cultural identity.  I have to practice constantly referring to several
of my granddaughter's friends as "they", not "she" or "he" or "her" or
"him."

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 10:18 AM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Steve,
>
>
>
> Well, when good threads are bent, you and I will bend them.
>
>
>
> Let me complete my thought:  There are two kinds of feminism here, right?
> [Merle, please be kind.]  One claims that women are not different, and
> therefore should be treated equally.  The other claims that women are or
> may be different but that males’ and females’ natures are to be valued
> equally.  I have always leaned toward this sort of feminism.  But I see now
> that, insofar as it captures every woman I meet in a stereotype, this sort
> of feminism is itself sexist.  Every time I meet a woman, I engage in the
> following abductive-deductive logic:
>
>
>
>               This person is wearing a skirt (say) and has long hair
> (say).
>
>               This person is probably a woman.
>
>               Women are less likely to be aggressive A-holes than men,
>
>               Therefore, I (probably) can relax around this person.
>
>
>
> There is no escaping the  sexism of this logic.
>
>
>
> I listen every week to a podcast, *Strict Scrutiny, *which begins with
> the aphorism:
>
>
>
> I ask no special favor for my sex; I ask only that you take your feet off
> our necks
>
>
>
> I was raised near the end of a rural road during WWII.  My only chum, from
> about 1 year to adolescence was a girl.  After the War, my parents moved to
> Boston.  Before we were separated, we had a long chat about gender, she and
> I, and agreed, sadly, that I was *lucky* to be a guy.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 14, 2021 10:24 AM
> *To:* friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Talent and Moral Luck - Steelman attempt
>
>
>
>
>
> nst> Sorry.  You missed my point.  It was—YPTE—introspective.  I was
> noticing that I could not believe that a world without women was dreary
> without being a sexist.
>
>
>
> nst> Probably not that interesting a thought if one is under 50, or 60, or
> 70, or perhaps even 80
>
> and I submit to all that the main point of the storyline is the
> sorry/not-sorry (unintended/unexpected/yet-predictable) consequences of
> using violence (one of the most egregious types of levers).
>
> The "dreariness" of a world without women would seem to be eclipsed by the
> personal grief of *virtually* every male on the planet losing his
> wife/mother/daughters/sisters/female-friends overnight (in the personal)
> and the abrupt if delayed (by a remaining lifespan) existential grief of
> the end of a spectacular (if clearly flawed, as demonstrated by the central
> theme) species.   Maybe a (very few?) fully psychotic misogynists found it
> a pleasing condition (in which case I "blame the Mother" ;^) )
>
> Unlike most post-apocalyptic storytelling, the misery is not (overtly)
> miserable health crises (nuclear holocaust) or marauding bands (though they
> did feature) or competition for exhausting resources, or retreating from an
> angry/disappointed "mother earth", but rather a simple but profound
> "absence" and incontrovertable "end of humanity", leaving the men of the
> world to contemplate (or not) how they treated women before they all went
> away.
>
> <blatant Moralizing>
>
>   If Marcus' nihilist view that "it is all levers" is more true than not,
> it explains why this grand experiment of "civilization" seems to be
> collapsing into a cesspool of it's own making, under it's own weight.  Or
> it's own hubris.  Or under the self-perpetuating seduction of vengeance and
> retribution: (don't click if you hate poetry)  The People of the Other
> Village - Thomas Lux
> <https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/48485/the-people-of-the-other-village>
>
> My parents taught me (mostly by example) that punishment of children was
> at best a necessary last resort, resulting from and reflecting upon a
> failure of good parenting leading up to the need for acute correction.
> They were at least a *little* more direct/vocal about the same principle in
> public life, that our criminal justice system *only* existed, with it's
> myriad attempts at exacting justice without revenge and finding clever
> forms of "punitive retribution" to at least appear like "natural
> consequences" (not a term in parenting vocabulary at that time quite yet,
> but practiced by my parents and a few others I knew).
>
> Our current "Lord of the Flies" scene in DC (and across the country) may
> require all kinds of exacted punishment to re-align elements of society to
> where we can live together in relative peace, but to not acknowledge that
> the mere entertainment of the likes of Donald Trump as a national leader
> represents an abject failure of our culture to "make sense".   The calls
> for removal/impeachment/censure/disbarment are all reasonable triage
> actions to minimize continued damage, even if they are in many ways "too
> little too late".   But I am saddened as I hear a great deal of the
> rhetoric on the topic armatured around *retribution* and *vengeance*...
>
> Self-Righteously yours,
>
> - Steve
>
>
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-- 
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @merle110
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