[FRIAM] lurking

[Prof David West]

Before the thread leaves games for consciousness ...

A couple of years back, World of Warcraft passed the 1 billion player hour mark. That is just one game. A survey somewhere  around that time claimed that self identified gamers averaged 30+ hours a week engaged in games. The low end of the curve was 20 hours a week (if you did not play that much, I guess you did not consider yourself a gamer) and the high end was well over 100 hours a week.

The question of the day (then): why do people spend enjoy games so much more than real life and especially work life? There was a 'movement', under the umbrella label of "gamification" to apply ideas/principles supposedly gleamed from analysis of why games were so compelling and apply those ideas to education and work in specific, but also life in general. 

I have half-dozen or so books on this subject and will look them up if anyone is interested.

davew


On Tue, Nov 2, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> My point was that the cost to probe some memory address is low.   And 
> all there is, is I/O and memory.  
>
>  It does become difficult to track thousands of addresses at once:  
> Think of a debugger that has millions of watchpoints.   However, one 
> could have diagnostics compiled in to the code to check invariants from 
> time to time.   I don't know why Nick says there is no privilege.   
> There can be complete privilege.   Extracting meaning from that access 
> is rarely easy, of course.  Just as debugging any given problem can be 
> hard.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
> Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 3:20 PM
> To: friam at redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] lurking
>
> Literal self-awareness is possible. The flaw in your argument is that 
> "self" is ambiguous in the way you're using it. It's not ambiguous in 
> the way me or Marcus intend it. You can see this nicely if you elide 
> "know" from your argument.  We know nothing. The machine knows nothing. 
> Just don't use the word "know" or the concept it references.  There 
> need not be a model involved, either, only sensors and things to be 
> sensed. 
>
> Self-sensing means there is a feedback loop between the sensor and the 
> thing it senses. So, the sensor measures the sensed and the sensed 
> measures the sensor. That is self-awareness. There's no need for any of 
> the psychological hooha you often object to. There's no need for 
> privileged information *except* that there has to be a loop. If 
> anything is privileged, it's the causal loop.
>
> The real trick is composing multiple self-self loops into something 
> resembling what we call a conscious agent. We can get to the uncanny 
> valley with regular old self-sensing control theory and robotics. 
> Getting beyond the valley is difficult: https://youtu.be/D8_VmWWRJgE A 
> similar demonstration is here: https://youtu.be/7ncDPoa_n-8
>
>
>
> On 11/1/21 2:08 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
>> In fact, strictly speaking, I think literal self-awareness is impossible.  Because, whatever a machine knows about itself, it is a MODEL of itself based on well situated sensors of its own activities, just like you are and I am.  There is no privileged access, just bettah or wussah access.
>
> -- 
> "Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie."
> ☤>$ uǝlƃ
>
>
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