[FRIAM] The epiphenomenality relation

[Frank Wimberly]

By the way an example of a cycle with no delay, unless time isn't
continuous, is a pair of ladders leaning against each other so that neither
falls.  That violates assumptions of our causal discovery algorithms.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 7:57 PM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com> wrote:

> An element of a (very short) cycle.  Note that there has to be a delay.
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 7:44 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Frank,
>>
>>
>>
>> In your lingo, what is an effect called that feeds back on its cause?
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick Thompson
>>
>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>>
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 28, 2021 7:15 PM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam at redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The epiphenomenality relation
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, for example.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Frank C. Wimberly
>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>
>> 505 670-9918
>> Santa Fe, NM
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 6:06 PM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I guess you mean A(t=0)->B(t=1), B(t=1)->A(t=2), not B(t=1)->A(t=0)
>>
>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 28, 2021 3:46 PM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam at redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The epiphenomenality relation
>>
>>
>>
>> I did a number of experiments in the use of causal learning methods to
>> infer genetic regulatory networks using actual and simulated data.  Those
>> networks have loops of a variety of lengths.  References available upon
>> request.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Frank C. Wimberly
>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>
>> 505 670-9918
>> Santa Fe, NM
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 4:41 PM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I just don't see how that is a "loop" except that repeated application of
>> such a matrix could lead to oscillation.    It sounded like somehow
>> causality was violated and not just obscured.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of ? glen
>> Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 3:38 PM
>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com
>> >
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The epiphenomenality relation
>>
>> Right, high dimension. More important than the matrix being large is that
>> it has non-zero cross terms.
>>
>> On November 28, 2021 8:42:37 AM PST, Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
>> wrote:
>> >The operators are large (in the sense of a matrix) whether or not they
>> are intended to be?
>> >
>> >> On Nov 28, 2021, at 6:20 AM, ⛧ glen <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Any of the evolutionary operators across scales, from energy exchange
>> at the finest to ecosystem reengineering at the coarsest.
>> >>
>> >>> On November 27, 2021 7:33:15 AM PST, Marcus Daniels <
>> marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:
>> >>> I’ve heard these words from you Glen, but I have no idea what these
>> loops are or what you might be talking about.
>> >>>
>> --
>> glen ⛧
>>
>>
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