[FRIAM] technical notes on fusion announcement
Merle Lefkoff
merlelefkoff at gmail.com
Fri Dec 16 13:26:07 EST 2022
This fusion video should be the standard for how to present every single
technological innovation, every so-called "renewable energy" device that is
too little, too late, and most importantly distracts us from thinking
seriously about how we shall survive climate catastrophe and continue to
live a flourishing life on earth. Thank you Carl--I think you sent this
link to the group.
On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 10:57 AM cody dooderson <d00d3rs0n at gmail.com> wrote:
> I had never heard of a transatlantic power grid. That is an interesting
> idea. The sun is probably shining somewhere on the earth at any given time.
> Would a lot of energy get wasted with the long distances?
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 10:46 AM Gillian Densmore <gil.densmore at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> frank: ah! thanks. It seems like you've had 99 lives man.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 12:28 AM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I like the idea of a large transatlantic DC power cable. That would
>>> enable solar power to be distributed around the world. It would reduce
>>> the need to depend on batteries for wind and solar. Of course, you raise
>>> #3, so it would be a target for sabotage like with Nordstream. It would be
>>> nice to think there are things just to valuable to destroy, but probably
>>> there are no such things.
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Sarbajit Roy <
>>> sroy.mb at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, December 16, 2022 12:01 AM
>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>>> friam at redfish.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] technical notes on fusion announcement
>>>
>>> What you are missing includes
>>> 1) Disposal of long term hazardous nuclear waste.
>>> 2) Problems in maintaining / decommissioning ol older nuclear
>>> fission plants
>>> 3) Examples like we are seeing Ukraine's nuclear plants caught up in a
>>> war.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 2:59 AM Gillian Densmore <gil.densmore at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ok so this is cool and all.
>>> Sigh I'll ask *that* question. We want less carbons because the planet
>>> is on f'n fire <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFgBFYkBZ6E> . As far
>>> as I know humans (in the very least) accelerated climate change. Ie we made
>>> this mess clean it up. ok fair so far I'm following.
>>> So uh why not just start with fission (breeders) ? Why not also put as
>>> much money into matter/anti matter as well as fusion? We can make minute
>>> amounts of antimatter in massive collider. I'd think something who's by
>>> product are xrays gamma and some other stuff with a lot of energy created
>>> would be a massive honney pot the department of energy would pursue as well.
>>> I know the answer to fission (sadly) is NIMBY. (yes but it's a lot
>>> cleaner and safer than oil and coal I say)
>>> I don't know why we haven't looked at other things as well
>>> What I'm saying is fusion has been humans icarus wings with it being
>>> just arround the corner for decades. while matter/anti matter is (sort of)
>>> here. Fission is here. Want zero carbons? cool! so why not build out a ton
>>> of reactors we already can do. Or am I missing something?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 8:31 AM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> How ICF might evolve into a power plant:
>>>
>>> https://firstlightfusion.com/technology/power-plant
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Dec 14, 2022, at 7:16 AM, glen <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Excellent! Thanks. I think I'll have to push this topic for another
>>> day. I've got a few more links from other fora I'll plop here just in case
>>> I only land back here if/when I pop it off the stack later:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/magnetized-targets-boost-nif-implosion-performance
>>>
>>> https://spie.org/news/nuclear-fusion-nifs-hall-of-mirrors-may-solve-worlds-energy-crisis?SSO=1
>>>
>>> https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-power-may-run-fuel-even-gets-started
>>>
>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/what-enabled-the-big-boost-in-fusion-energy-announced-this-week/
>>>
>>> On 12/13/22 16:23, Steve Smith wrote:
>>>
>>> I think DT refers simply to the remaining fraction of Deuterium/Tritium
>>> remaining after the reaction event (-4%) without specific accounting for
>>> remaining D vs T.
>>>
>>> My understanding is that D-T fusion occurs at a lower temperature than
>>> D-D but that once fusion commences (starting with D-T), both D-T and D-D
>>> reactions occurring in similar amounts. In laser-driven ICF (as with NIF) I
>>> believe the ratio of D/T is nominally 50/50 though it would seem to make
>>> sense to have a higher T to D ratio but most references I see imply equal
>>> portions. An equal number of D-D and D-T reactions would seem to consume
>>> D more quickly, though as that commences, the D/T ratio would go down,
>>> making D-T reactions (yet) more likely... tricky business, no wonder it
>>> has taken decades to get to this point?
>>>
>>> The Wikipedia Entry on ICF is pretty good:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_confinement_fusion
>>>
>>> I found several popular science Articles which seem to reinforce my
>>> sense that this "breakthrough" is not as significant as implied:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-breakthrough-nif-uh-not-really
>>>
>>> Other interesting/relevant links regarding D-T and D-D fusion...
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263507001_Species_separation_and_modification_of_neutron_diagnostics_in_inertial-confinement_fusion/figures?lo=1
>>>
>>> https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions <
>>> https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://science.jrank.org/pages/4732/Nuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html
>>> <
>>> https://science.jrank.org/pages/4732/Nuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html
>>> >
>>>
>>> On 12/13/22 4:36 PM, glen wrote:
>>>
>>> That's why I asked. I guess I'll assume DT means both deuterium and
>>> tritium, not just deuterium. If you were going to track fuel use, you'd
>>> track the rarer part more closely, right?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/13/22 09:22, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>>>
>>> DT = deuterium?
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Frank C. Wimberly
>>>
>>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>>>
>>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>>
>>>
>>> 505 670-9918
>>>
>>> Santa Fe, NM
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 10:21 AM glen <gepropella at gmail.com <mailto:
>>> gepropella at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Awesome. Thanks. I'm still trying to catch up with the QC Wormhole
>>> kerfuffle. Who knew Quanta was so click baity?
>>>
>>>
>>> What is "DT"?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/13/22 09:02, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>>>
>>> > In case no one wanted to get up at 7:00am to watch DOE
>>> administrators talk:
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > 1. Controlling the laser in space and time was important for
>>> maintaining symmetry. Timing precision of 25e-12 secs and laser spatial
>>> precision of 5e-12 meter were needed. This was thought to be the main
>>> explanation for the achievement.
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > 2. 8% more power on the laser this time
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > 3. x-ray tomography is used to find flaws in the capsules.
>>> Developing software to do the counting.
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > 4. They have ongoing efforts to study the fabrication systems and
>>> their components (done in Germany) to find idiosyncrasies of each.
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > 5. Laser technology improvements since NIF was built which are
>>> 20% more efficient.
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > 6. Target cost is from labor, and it takes 7 months each
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > 7. 4% of DT is burned in a shot
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > 8. Machine learning ties together radiation hydrodynamics and
>>> experimental data. (It sounded preliminary.)
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > 9. The (successful) capsule had more defects than previous
>>> experiments. However, previous experiments did show benefits from capsule
>>> quality.
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > 10. 15% of experiments are indirect drive of this kind, 15% of
>>> experiments are other approaches to ignition. The rest are weapons and
>>> materials characterization.
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > 11. Anomalous laser directional control were problems in the
>>> summer runs. Fixed that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>>>
>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>> archives: 5/2017 thru present
>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>
>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>> archives: 5/2017 thru present
>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>
>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>> archives: 5/2017 thru present
>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>
>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>> archives: 5/2017 thru present
>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>
>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>> archives: 5/2017 thru present
>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives: 5/2017 thru present
> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
mobile: (303) 859-5609
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20221216/d1831a12/attachment.html>
More information about the Friam
mailing list