[FRIAM] technical notes on fusion announcement

Steve Smith sasmyth at swcp.com
Thu Dec 22 15:16:30 EST 2022


Following the conception of a Transatlantic power cable, I just heard on 
the radio that a couple huge globe-ish spanning electrical-busses are 
under planning... one that might span from Thailand to Saudi Arabia 
(through northern India) with Solar (and other renewables?) tapping in 
along the way and load-shifting E/W with the sunlight and load.   Also 
maybe one that spans Australia which I believe to be about as wide as 
the US?

Seems like TX's problems stemming from their own (short-sighted?) 
self-isolation might be good hosts/promoters of such a long-throw?

I don't know what it would take to upgrade the national rail system to 
also be a load-balancing shadow network for renewable electricity?   I 
assume none of them are electrified (third rail) but maybe laying one, 
given the pre-existing right-of-way and regular 
inspection/maintenance/access available would be of interest?   But then 
maybe our FriAM member who is working on converting natural gas to 
pneumatic energy-transfer/storage knows more about all those issues?   
Hybridized infrastructure across many types?

Maybe the existing Diesel-Electric Engines (most of what is on the rail) 
could tap in mildly to reduce diesel consumption and do their own load 
leveling?   Fill empty tankers with water at the top of lines (where 
there *is* water) and carry it to low lying land, extracting the PE from 
the mass/elevation drop? Reline old asphalt/fuel-oil/etc tankers and 
provide boutique "Rocky Mountain" (or Cascades) branch-water to the big 
cities while extracting (maybe) enough energy from the elevation drop to 
at least pay to haul the damn empties back up the hill?

  With me as the big "unintended consequence" chicken-little, I'm sure 
most if not all of my hare-brained schemes are truly just "asking for 
trouble", but I think it is inevitable that they will all be considered 
in the spirit of adjacent-technical-possibles...

National Railway System: 
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/mapviewer/index.html?webmap=96ec03e4fc8546bd8a864e39a2c3fc41

> This fusion video should be the standard for how to present every 
> single technological innovation, every so-called "renewable energy" 
> device that is too little, too late, and most importantly distracts us 
> from thinking seriously about how we shall survive climate catastrophe 
> and continue to live a flourishing life on earth.  Thank you Carl--I 
> think you sent this link to the group.
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 10:57 AM cody dooderson <d00d3rs0n at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
>     I had never heard of a transatlantic power grid. That is an
>     interesting idea. The sun is probably shining somewhere on the
>     earth at any given time. Would a lot of energy get wasted with the
>     long distances?
>
>     On Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 10:46 AM Gillian Densmore
>     <gil.densmore at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>         frank: ah! thanks. It seems like you've had 99 lives man.
>
>         On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 12:28 AM Marcus Daniels
>         <marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:
>
>             I like the idea of a large transatlantic DC power cable.  
>             That would enable solar power to be distributed around the
>             world.   It would reduce the need to depend on batteries
>             for wind and solar.   Of course, you raise #3, so it would
>             be a target for sabotage like with Nordstream.  It would
>             be nice to think there are things just to valuable to
>             destroy, but probably there are no such things.
>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>             *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of
>             Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb at gmail.com>
>             *Sent:* Friday, December 16, 2022 12:01 AM
>             *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>             <friam at redfish.com>
>             *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] technical notes on fusion announcement
>             What you are missing includes
>             1) Disposal of long term hazardous nuclear waste.
>             2) Problems in maintaining / decommissioning ol older
>             nuclear fission plants
>             3) Examples like we are seeing Ukraine's nuclear plants
>             caught up in a war.
>
>             On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 2:59 AM Gillian Densmore
>             <gil.densmore at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>                 Ok so this is cool and all.
>                 Sigh I'll ask /that/ question. We want less carbons
>                 because the planet is on f'n fire
>                 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFgBFYkBZ6E>  . As
>                 far as I know humans (in the very least) accelerated
>                 climate change. Ie we made this mess clean it up. ok
>                 fair so far I'm following.
>                 So uh why not just start with fission (breeders) ? Why
>                 not also put as much money into matter/anti matter as
>                 well as fusion? We can make minute amounts of
>                 antimatter in massive collider. I'd think something
>                 who's by product are xrays gamma and some other stuff
>                 with a lot of energy created would be a massive honney
>                 pot the department of energy would pursue as well.
>                 I know the answer to fission (sadly) is NIMBY. (yes
>                 but it's a lot cleaner and safer than oil and coal I say)
>                 I don't know why we haven't looked at other things as well
>                 What I'm saying is fusion has been humans icarus wings
>                 with it being just arround the corner for decades.
>                 while matter/anti matter is (sort of) here. Fission is
>                 here. Want zero carbons? cool! so why not build out a
>                 ton of reactors we already can do. Or am I missing
>                 something?
>
>                 On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 8:31 AM Marcus Daniels
>                 <marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:
>
>                     How ICF might evolve into a power plant:
>
>                     https://firstlightfusion.com/technology/power-plant
>
>                     Sent from my iPhone
>
>>                     On Dec 14, 2022, at 7:16 AM, glen
>>                     <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>                     Excellent! Thanks. I think I'll have to push
>>                     this topic for another day. I've got a few more
>>                     links from other fora I'll plop here just in case
>>                     I only land back here if/when I pop it off the
>>                     stack later:
>>
>>                     https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/magnetized-targets-boost-nif-implosion-performance
>>                     https://spie.org/news/nuclear-fusion-nifs-hall-of-mirrors-may-solve-worlds-energy-crisis?SSO=1
>>                     https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-power-may-run-fuel-even-gets-started
>>                     https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/what-enabled-the-big-boost-in-fusion-energy-announced-this-week/
>>
>>                     On 12/13/22 16:23, Steve Smith wrote:
>>>                     I think DT refers simply to the remaining
>>>                     fraction of Deuterium/Tritium remaining after
>>>                     the reaction event (-4%) without specific
>>>                     accounting for remaining D vs T.
>>>                     My understanding is that D-T fusion occurs at a
>>>                     lower temperature than D-D but that once fusion
>>>                     commences (starting with D-T), both D-T and D-D
>>>                     reactions occurring in similar amounts. In
>>>                     laser-driven ICF (as with NIF) I believe the
>>>                     ratio of D/T is nominally 50/50 though it would
>>>                     seem to make sense to have a higher T to D ratio
>>>                     but most references I see imply equal
>>>                     portions.   An equal number of D-D and D-T
>>>                     reactions would seem to consume D more quickly,
>>>                     though as that commences, the D/T ratio would go
>>>                     down, making D-T reactions (yet) more
>>>                     likely...   tricky business, no wonder it has
>>>                     taken decades to get to this point?
>>>                     The Wikipedia Entry on ICF is pretty good:
>>>                     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_confinement_fusion
>>>                     I found several popular science Articles which
>>>                     seem to reinforce my sense that this
>>>                     "breakthrough" is not as significant as implied:
>>>                     https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-breakthrough-nif-uh-not-really
>>>                     Other interesting/relevant links regarding D-T
>>>                     and D-D fusion...
>>>                     https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263507001_Species_separation_and_modification_of_neutron_diagnostics_in_inertial-confinement_fusion/figures?lo=1
>>>                     https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions
>>>                     <https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions>
>>>                     https://science.jrank.org/pages/4732/Nuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html
>>>                     <https://science.jrank.org/pages/4732/Nuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html>
>>>                     On 12/13/22 4:36 PM, glen wrote:
>>>>                     That's why I asked. I guess I'll assume DT
>>>>                     means both deuterium and tritium, not just
>>>>                     deuterium. If you were going to track fuel use,
>>>>                     you'd track the rarer part more closely, right?
>>>>
>>>>                     On 12/13/22 09:22, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>>>>>                     DT = deuterium?
>>>>>
>>>>>                     ---
>>>>>                     Frank C. Wimberly
>>>>>                     140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>>>>>                     Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>>>>
>>>>>                     505 670-9918
>>>>>                     Santa Fe, NM
>>>>>
>>>>>                     On Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 10:21 AM glen
>>>>>                     <gepropella at gmail.com
>>>>>                     <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Awesome. Thanks. I'm still trying to catch up
>>>>>                     with the QC Wormhole kerfuffle. Who knew
>>>>>                     Quanta was so click baity?
>>>>>
>>>>>                     What is "DT"?
>>>>>
>>>>>                     On 12/13/22 09:02, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>>>>>                     > In case no one wanted to get up at 7:00am to
>>>>>                     watch DOE administrators talk:
>>>>>                     >
>>>>>                     >
>>>>>                     > 1. Controlling the laser in space and time
>>>>>                     was important for maintaining symmetry. Timing
>>>>>                     precision of 25e-12 secs and laser spatial
>>>>>                     precision of 5e-12 meter were needed. This was
>>>>>                     thought to be the main explanation for the
>>>>>                     achievement.
>>>>>                     >
>>>>>                     > 2. 8% more power on the laser this time
>>>>>                     >
>>>>>                     > 3. x-ray tomography is used to find flaws in
>>>>>                     the capsules. Developing software to do the
>>>>>                     counting.
>>>>>                     >
>>>>>                     > 4. They have ongoing efforts to study the
>>>>>                     fabrication systems and their components (done
>>>>>                     in Germany) to find idiosyncrasies of each.
>>>>>                     >
>>>>>                     > 5. Laser technology improvements since NIF
>>>>>                     was built which are 20% more efficient.
>>>>>                     >
>>>>>                     > 6. Target cost is from labor, and it takes 7
>>>>>                     months each
>>>>>                     >
>>>>>                     > 7. 4% of DT is burned in a shot
>>>>>                     >
>>>>>                     > 8. Machine learning ties together radiation
>>>>>                     hydrodynamics and experimental data.   (It
>>>>>                     sounded preliminary.)
>>>>>                     >
>>>>>                     > 9. The (successful) capsule had more defects
>>>>>                     than previous experiments.   However, previous
>>>>>                     experiments did show benefits from capsule
>>>>>                     quality.
>>>>>                     >
>>>>>                     > 10. 15% of experiments are indirect drive of
>>>>>                     this kind, 15% of experiments are other
>>>>>                     approaches to ignition. The rest are weapons
>>>>>                     and materials characterization.
>>>>>                     >
>>>>>                     > 11. Anomalous laser directional control were
>>>>>                     problems in the summer runs.   Fixed that.
>>
>>
>>                     -- 
>>                     ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>>
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> -- 
> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
> Center for Emergent Diplomacy
> emergentdiplomacy.org <http://emergentdiplomacy.org>
> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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