[FRIAM] My Work On Earth Is Not Yet Done

Thu Oct 20 08:31:12 EDT 2022

*NST===>Not at all clear to me what psycho somatic means, unless it
involves some sort of assignment of blame.  If I, a diabetic eat a hot
fudge Sunday and go into ketosis, is my coma psychosomatic? Does it matter
that I did it as an unconscious protest against the idiocies  of
contemporary diabetes management? <===nst] *

No.  No.
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 9:44 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, Dave,
>
>
>
> See Larding below
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 18, 2022 2:05 PM
> *To:* friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] My Work On Earth Is Not Yet Done
>
> Hi, Dave,
>
>
>
> Notice that in cashing out the honorable Dr. Green, you get yourself into
> a rhetorical tangle.
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam friam-bounces at redfish.com *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 18, 2022 2:05 PM
> *To:* friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] My Work On Earth Is Not Yet Done
>
>
>
> Colloquially, "in your head" signifies that construct—the self, the
> consciousness— that you do not accept as a real thing.
>
>
>
> *[NST===>well, the question dangling here is whether the person should be
> blamed for it or not.  It’s like that old childhood question:  Is not
> wanting to go to school going to be made better or worse by going to
> school.  Or, are other people going to get sick, if go to school.  Not
> clear how consciousness enters in.  <===nst] *
>
>
>
> If one were to be charitable, one might interpret the sentence as "it is
> not psychosomatic."*[NST===>Not at all clear to me what psycho somatic
> means, unless it involves some sort of assignment of blame.  If I, a
> diabetic eat a hot fudge Sunday and go into ketosis, is my coma
> psychosomatic? Does it matter that I did it as an unconscious protest
> against the idiocies  of contemporary diabetes management? <===nst] *
>
> Reason being pain results in signals in both the body
>
> *[NST===>Pain results in signals…  I thought pain WAS the signals.  Or
> even, the result of the signals.  So pain causes pain.  Uhuh.  I get that.
> Nothing more satisfying than a good tautology.  <===nst] *
>
> and the brain, so it is a phenomenon in the 'physical world of electrons
> and neurons' as well as the 'physical world of the flesh'.
>
>
>
> But why be charitable?*[NST===>To use Glen’s language, I don’t think the
> idea that “pain **è** pain signals in the body **è** pain signals in the
> brain causes pain” **can be rescued by charity.  Nor do I think the idea
> that the brain is not in the body is capable of rescue.*
>
>
>
> *I am an anarchist with respect to consciousness talk; we need to burn the
> whole fucker down.  See below from a dialogue eric and I wrote years ago.
> Eric asks the questions:*
>
>
>
> *Nick <===nst] *
>
>
>
> So a robot could be made that would feel pain?
>
>
>
> Well, you are cheating a bit, because you are asking me to participate in
> a word game I have already disavowed, the game in which pain is something
> inside my brain that I use my pain-feelers to palpate (contra Natsoulas,
> this volume). To me, pain is an emergency organization of my behavior in
> which I deploy physical and social defenses of various sorts. You show me a
> robot that is part of a society of robots, becomes frantic when you break
> some part of it, calls upon its fellow robots to assist, etc., I will be
> happy to admit that it is “paining”.
>
>
>
> On your account, non-social animals don’t feel pain?
>
>
>
> Well, not the same sort of pain. Any creature that struggles when you do
> something to it is  “paining” in some sense. But animals that have the
> potential to summon help seem to pain in a different way.
>
>
>
> But Nick, while “paining” sounds nice in an academic paper, it is just
> silly otherwise. The other day I felt quite nauseous after a meal. I am
> interested in what it’s like to feel nauseous, and you cannot honestly
> claim that you don’t know what feeling nauseous is like. Behavioral
> correlates aren’t at issue, stop changing the subject.
>
>
>
> What is “being nauseous” like? It’s like being on a small boat in a choppy
> sea, it’s like being in a world that is revolving when others see it as
> stable, it’s like being grey in the face and turning away from the sights
> and smells of food that others find attractive, it’s like having your head
> in the toilet when others have theirs in the refrigerator.
>
>
>
>             But you have brought us to the crux of the problem. Nobody has
> ever been satisfied with my answers to these, “What is it like to be a
> _______?” questions. “What is it like to be in pain? What is it like to be
> a bat? What is it like to be Nick Thompson?” Notice how the grammar is
> contorted. If you ask the question in its natural order, you begin to see a
> path to an answer. “What is being Nick Thompson like?” “It’s like running
> around like a chicken with its head cut off.” OK. I get that. I see me
> doing that. You see me doing that. But most people won’t be satisfied with
> that sort of answer, because it’s the same as the answer to the question,
> “What do people like Nick Thompson do?” and therefore appears to convey no
> information that  is inherently private.  To me, the question, “What is it
> like to be X?”, has been fully answered when you have said where X-like
> people can be found and what they will be doing there. However, I seem to
> be pretty alone in that view.
>
>
>
> Dave wrote:  Colloquially, "in your head" signifies that construct—the
> self, the consciousness— that you do not accept as a real thing.
>
>
>
> If one were to be charitable, one might interpret the sentence as "it is
> not psychosomatic." Reason being pain results in signals in both the body
> and the brain, so it is a phenomenon in the 'physical world of electrons
> and neurons' as well as the 'physical world of the flesh'.
>
>
>
> But why be charitable?
>
>
>
> davew
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, at 12:44 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
>
> A highly regarded pain expert, Dr. Carmen Green, talking about chronic
> pain on the pod cast of an equally highly regarded neurosurgeon, Dr.
> Sanjay Gupta:
>
>
>
> *“… pain is also perceived in the brain, so it’s not only in your head.”*
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
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