[FRIAM] Theil

Frank Wimberly wimberly3 at gmail.com
Mon Nov 13 21:31:42 EST 2023

Were you responding to my post, Eric?  Probably not.

Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 6:43 PM David Eric Smith <desmith at santafe.edu> wrote:

> Well in that case, definitely look up the interview he did with Sara
> Walker and Lee Cronin.
> I will not comment further.
> Eric
> On Nov 13, 2023, at 5:57 PM, Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:
> On 11/13/23 12:06 PM, glen wrote:
> You might want to check the Gurometer. Lex has an entry:
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Oe-af4_OmzLJavktcSKGfP0wmxCX0ppP8n_Tvi9l_yc/edit?usp=sharing
> While Lex's scores are relatively low compared to some of the wackos on
> the list, we are known by association. And many of Lex's guests score
> relatively high.
> Fascinating resource,  thanks!  You are a veritable font (fount) of things
> like this that I should probably be able to find for myself.
> I had to look a little to find a key to the columns of the  table, I don't
> know if this is the preferred or only one, but it seemed close enough to be
> useful for my purposes:
> https://techhenzy.com/gurometer/
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2ftechhenzy.com%2fgurometer%2f&c=E,1,-jmX3-GnKvHRZ-U6g3sLfGsk8ntKDTZ0snin2zifY--Hno29Qx92h9fhySz8IXtuihWQCxiEVogT6296DEPPb4qsdNHWD6ZIX5ul4F-34Wihzhuu&typo=1>
> I haven't listened to enough of Lex's podcasts (did I mention 1-2 hours
> each?!) to be able to evaluate what his "coupling" is with his guests...
> even without the GuruMeter I felt that theme ("known by association") from
> the more prominent/recent interviewees he has engaged... but my contingent
> judgement of the *content* and *style* of the interviews counterbalanced
> that almost to an extreme.   Which is why I brought it up here.
> Implicit but likely opaque/arcane to your own references to community
> (self) policing and ?agonism?, I feel (with limited experience so far) that
> Fridman may well provide a regulating role within some community (of
> Galaxy-Brain Gurus?)...
> I doubt I will get the 'round t'uits but it seems like there is a tensor
> product to be explored among these folks and their various interactions
> with one another...   something interesting might emerge?   Maybe this only
> occurs to me because Lex is more of a coupling agent than a primary source
> of any ideas/theories/positions from what I've seen so far.   I haven't
> investigated the GuruMeter guys enough to understand their methods but I
> take it for granted they are not unserious in this work.
> On 11/13/23 10:08, Steve Smith wrote:
> It seems (maybe only to me?) that "will" is what defines the intersection
> of memory and imagination?   The free-will-less-ness-ers among us (ala
> Sopolsky
> <https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/oct/24/determined-life-without-free-will-by-robert-sapolsky-review-the-hard-science-of-decisions>
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.theguardian.com%2fbooks%2f2023%2foct%2f24%2fdetermined-life-without-free-will-by-robert-sapolsky-review-the-hard-science-of-decisions&c=E,1,91wHpfNIkmXC-CnGi3PazdL_hQlw2NlNpCoVT3nJCuot5r9OAZsB0usPuLlH6_6rlBoDorx2bLYVT55_T9jETx_-4wilrXWAjG-3MNgonMWE9w,,&typo=1>)
> may find this an entirely specious thing to consider or discuss (though
> without free will, what means "specious" or "discuss" or "consider" sans
> free-will?).
> I recently discovered Lex Fridman's podcasts
> <https://lexfridman.com/podcast/>
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2flexfridman.com%2fpodcast%2f&c=E,1,QWrnSg3KQcihreIAIaA74In11b90OwQV4DbIgelWBXYN4Ud1PK0WvNTlNakcIB0zdfgEMx2X6t8b-1_TPyUhzXpNMlaFz3z4sKIKjXliwZAs&typo=1>
> and was quite surprised by several things (albeit with very limited
> sampling... all of his most recent interview with Musk and a bit of his
> interview with Isaacson and about half of the Harari one):   I don't
> significantly disagree with the general mistrust of Musk in his
> Autistic-ish style and affect, but I'd say that Lex brings out the best in
> him, showing him to be capable of thoughtful and even empathetic-ish
> observations.  As I understand it (from my reading of Isaacson's biography
> of Musk) brother Kimball may also be a significantly similar "regulating
> influence" on Elon.   Grimes maybe, maybe not.  The other mothers of his
> children, same-same... probably each and all of them for a period of time
> or within certain frameworks.   And again, same with the children... though
> maybe projection on my part having been moderately well-regulated in
> several modes by my own children during each of their phases (right up to
> their current middle-agedness).
> As an aside, Fridman's other interviews also all sound potentially
> fascinating... though I cringe at the fact/thought of interviews with
> Netanyahu, KanYE, Kushner, Rogan...     the commentary I've read around
> those interviews tends to skew toward "how could you normalize (amplify?)
> those A**holes by even giving them the time of the day???!!!?".   Lex's
> interviews are definitely long-form (1-2 hours) compared to today's
> tik-tok/ad-jingle/bumper-sticker/snark-pith calibrated sound-bitery.    I
> find myself avoiding them for this reason (not wanting to commit to
> listening past some of my own prejudices long enough to hear what they are
> really about?) but recognize (and have already begun to practice) that as
> with long-form written journalism, I can take it in bits, like I might eat
> a rich holiday meal... not try to gulp it down quickly in one sitting like
> a TV-dinner (for you X-ers, "Hot-Pocket", and Millenials == "??") for the
> mind.
> My recent fascination with Deacon's "Teleodynamics", Jeff Hawkins' take on
> the structure/function of the neocortex and Ian McGilchrist's updated  take
> on brain bicameralism (Master and Emissary
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_His_Emissary>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_His_Emissary>) feeds into
> this question of the intersection of memory and imagination and the
> implications of Transformer Models and other Generative Models in
> general.   My direct experience with GPT-4 and DALL-E is significant (many
> 10s of hours of engagement) but still a drop in the bucket.  There are
> times when I feel that all I've done is engaged with an incredibly
> high-dimensional french-curve/bezier spline and thereby been able to
> smoothly interpolate/extrapolate a handful of interesting (to me) data
> points into what feels like a powerful elaboration of what is implied by
> said curve-fit in the past (unknown knowns?) and future (unknown
> unknowns)?    When I'm not totally enraptured by the (apparent?) novelty
> (relative to my expectations/predictions) of it's responses I'm generally
> disappointed at it's limited creativity...   and left puzzling over the
> question of "novelty vs creativity".
> Bumble,
>   - Steve
> On 11/13/23 10:27 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> It seems to me that neither Musk and Thiel are interested in the unknown.
> They are interested in doing things they can already imagine.    For Musk I
> thought that was because it is how he raises money.   Now I think he is not
> imagining consciousness in a, say, a transporter pattern buffer, he
> imagines life on the Enterprise bridge in his body.   Rockets are
> comparatively science fictiony for people that can't imagine transport
> without a car, so he gets some points for that.
> On Nov 13, 2023, at 10:11 AM, glen<gepropella at gmail.com>
> <gepropella at gmail.com>  wrote:
> There's an interesting parallel between the Stross and Gellman pieces:
> Stross both laments and implicitly appreciates the bureaucracy of getting a
> book published, where Thiel's aggrieved by the bureaucracy of societal
> evolution.
> It reminds me of the engineering-vs-biology dichotomy (yes, false, like
> all of them) I came to appreciate after being exposed to enough biomimetics
> (to kill a horse). Some of us see the world and think about how to change
> it, build a better world ... or perhaps destroy the world, whatever floats
> your inner engineer. And some of us see the world and are awestruck,
> hypnotized, baffled by its qualities (whether beautiful or horrifying).
> It's easy to give the latter a pass and denigrate the former when
> confronted with, say, butterflies or the Grand Canyon. And it's easy to
> give the former a pass when confronted with poverty and war.
> But the next time you're at the DMV or arguing with some poor sucker
> manning the phones at the IRS, it can be useful to remember the falseness
> of the dichtomy. Similarly, when all you want to do is sleep under the
> stars and those damned gnats keep homing into your ears, it can be useful
> to think like an engineer.
> Policy and science fiction aren't that far apart.
> On 11/10/23 13:46, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> original.png
> Peter Thiel Is Taking a Break From Democracy
> <https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/11/peter-thiel-2024-election-politics-investing-life-views/675946/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share>
> <https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/11/peter-thiel-2024-election-politics-investing-life-views/675946/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share>
> On 11/10/23 11:26, Roger Critchlow wrote:
> Text of Charlie Stross' talk to Next Frontiers Applied Fiction Day in
> Stuttgart on Friday November 10th, 2023, concerning where the
> techno-industrial elite found their horrible philosophies/secular
> religions.
> https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2023/11/dont-create-the-torment-nexus.html
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.antipope.org%2fcharlie%2fblog-static%2f2023%2f11%2fdont-create-the-torment-nexus.html&c=E,1,npJ9AGeEQaUqgDJWMftMsnL-pymj_8pksBePVrbQ_gdF_v3fw88D4pk5N0nHIICGXPhItn57qErQ9u7HSkuvSqtpYRapdSTtpENo508PmwuMPlc7ou5f6pLrIPnj&typo=1>
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