[FRIAM] Off the wall question about turbulence
Steve Smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Tue Nov 28 12:54:31 EST 2023
I like the "listening" ideation offered, I *have* used the
temperature/tactility mode of holding my hand on a P-Trap to "feel" how
the water flows... vibrations convolved with "coolth"... usually
filling the sink partway and holding the p-trap in my hand while I pull
the plug and "feeling" for warm/cool spots and vibrations implying flow
patterns.
Very hard to calibrate, very intuitional and maybe just a ritual to go
through while I wait for my intuition (or the lye-based
organic-gunk-dissolver to do it's work if/when I use such a thing) to
catch up with the things I can imagine measuring overtly... I have not
put in nearly the requisite canonical 10,000 hours unclogging drains but
I'm much better at intuiting what they need after 60 years of practice
than I was say 5 or 10 years into a lifetime of recalcitrant drains.
Toilets are nothing more in some ways than a p-trap themselves and they
generally do exhibit vorticity when they flush (well). When fighting a
recalcitrant toilet, one of the first hints I have that the plug hasn't
fully abated is that no vortex forms, even if the water level does
subside (slowly)... I believe (but have not verified) that the
water-flow *into* the bowl is designed to promote vorticity while the
bulk of the work is the *suction) caused by an abrupt overflow of the
column of water leaving the back of the toilet's built-in P-trap?
On 11/28/23 7:01 AM, glen wrote:
> My intuition was "of course there's turbulence in the trap" ...
>
> I was going to suggest you unhook the washer, have a friend pour water
> from a large bucket into the drain while you hold your ear, tightly,
> to the side of the u-trap ... or maybe clamp your teeth on it so you
> can hear vibration that way ... or use a hose clamp to mount a rod and
> clamp your teeth onto that rod ...
>
> Or, you could use a piezo sensor:
> https://www.circuits-diy.com/piezoelectric-vibration-sensor-module/
> I'm not sure what turbulence in the trap might sound like. But you
> won't know until you take the data.
>
> You could also get one of those fancy snakes with a camera on the tip
> ... way more fun than taking apart the pipe.
>
> On 11/27/23 09:22, cody dooderson wrote:
>> I have no idea. You might be able to buy a clear plasti replacement
>> for the u-trap. Then you could add some food coloring to the wash and
>> record a video of what happens.
>>
>> _ Cody Smith _
>> cody at simtable.com <mailto:cody at simtable.com>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 7:42 AM Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm
>> <mailto:profwest at fastmail.fm>> wrote:
>>
>> When the washer drains, water flows for a bit, then you hear the
>> pipe filling up and water comes out the top. Pause the flow, water
>> drains quickly, start and pipe fills again. Cycle till rate of flow
>> subsides.
>>
>> Question: can turbulence occur at the u-trap and cause a
>> temporary blockage? If yes, does the turbulence occur because of
>> the distance from entry to the u-trap?
>>
>> Will ask plumber — but prior discussions of turbulence on the
>> list made me think it might pose an interesting problem..
>
>
More information about the Friam
mailing list