[FRIAM] why musk bought twitter

Fri Aug 2 16:52:16 EDT 2024

Perhaps realizing his interests require tapping government resources and many trillions of dollars.   I could see that for that it might make sense to use Twitter to manipulate the media and create the political support for his agenda(s).  Maybe it even makes sense to want Trump elected so that social service spending will be stopped, and more money can be redirected to his Mechzilla projects.   Perhaps he finds an open society creates too many competing goals, and, by supporting authoritarian thinking and Trump in particular, he anticipates a government that is easier to focus the way he likes.   What doesn't add up is that it was already going well for him with relatively wealthy Americans, and then he trashed his reputation and the profitability of Tesla for no apparent good reason.  The kind of people that will now by an Audi E-Tron instead of a Model S, or an Ionic 5 instead of a Model 3.   He also seems way too engaged in topics like transgender rights and immigration.    None of these issues need influence his life at all.   It is as if he really believes some of the peculiar things he says.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of glen
Sent: Friday, August 2, 2024 11:45 AM
To: friam at redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] why musk bought twitter

I clearly don't understand. Snyder's explanation is that Elno is a god, and views himself as a god (or the weaker concept of a hero). So Elno is both building/burying his hoard so that it'll be available across the transition *and* Lying to his flock such that they sacrifice to him in order to engage in projects that will ensure the transition happens and that he and his flock will exist on the other side.

None of that is nihilist. What am I missing?

On 8/2/24 11:32, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> I was addressing Snyder's recommendation rather than the development of Elon's personality.  Assuming the personality Elon presents is really his.  I suspect it is, which would be kind of a disappointment.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of glen
> Sent: Friday, August 2, 2024 11:25 AM
> To: friam at redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] why musk bought twitter
> 
> IDK. That sounds like you projecting onto Elno, rather than an explanation that relies on Elno's [hi]story. His narrative arc is (as Harris laid out in his video) is "the potential of humankind". And that doesn't seem nihilist to me. Maybe he's become one, of course. As Harris states in the video, when he became the richest man, a qualitative shift may have taken place. Harris argues the shift was he bought Twitter because he *need* conflict and obstacles to overcome. Maybe you could argue the qualitative change was that he became a nihilist when his hoard met that criterion. But because he continues to be an "AI Doomer" (at least in rhetoric and an accelerationist in action), there's some sort of Rawlsian curtain, like the singularity ... something on the other side of the transition - and an attempt to bury one's hoard so that it's available on the other side. And I think that eschatological conception fits better with his narrative arc than a nihilistic one.
> 
> On 8/2/24 11:11, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>> My standard answer to this is -- given the neural reference frame of nihilism -- is why not try some grand social experiments.  There is no Purpose, so causing harm in the short term, or for that matter long term, ultimately doesn't matter.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of glen
>> Sent: Friday, August 2, 2024 8:12 AM
>> To: friam at redfish.com
>> Subject: [FRIAM] why musk bought twitter
>>
>> This guy does what I think is a good job demonstrating that Elno's stated reasons (free speech, liberal bias, censorship) for buying Twitter were false:
>>
>> The Problem With Elon Musk
>> https://youtu.be/WYQxG4KEzvo?si=oXumcC8aqsYMTzdC&t=1487
>>
>> Sure, we can project whatever fantasies we want into the mind of an oligarch like Elno. But if we're trying to do a good job, find an explanation that's "hard to vary" (ala Deutsch), we're left empty handed. However Timothy Snyder provides us with something I think's intriguing; and it reflects various other arguments I've made, here, about TESCREAL <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TESCREAL>.
>>
>> Here's where I heard Snyder's setup:
>>
>> The New Paganism: How the Postmodern Became the Premodern
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nr2Q2zGNC8
>>
>> Appended below is Claude's summary of the talk. But the essence is that these people "believe" (somehow) they can "take it with them" in a similar way to the pagans (e.g. Vikings, Egyptians, etc.) believing they could hoard their stuff and somehow have access to it in the next life. This reflects well, I think, Musk's objectives for SpaceX, Tesla, breeding children, etc. It's somewhere between believing in souls, one's legacy, and spreading humanity (not biology, of course, but humanity) throughout the universe.
>>
>> My guess is most of our Oligarchs will give lip service to spiritual beliefs like Christianity or whatever, but are actually more atheistic in their ephemerides. But if you spend enough time arguing about atheism, you consistently find people (even atheistic people) asking for Purpose (with a capital P). Why are we here? What should we be doing? Etc. Despite our overwhelming rationalism/justificationism, many (most?) of us still seek that grand arch. And those of us who are *lucky* enough to be extraordinarily successful (in whatever domain) are at the most risk for this irrational/fideistic, paganist, TESCREAL Purpose. I think it's a relatively strong hypothesis for why Musk bought Twitter.
>>
>> Claude's summary:
>>> - Snyder argues that conventional explanations based on rationality and interests fail to adequately explain the rise of right-wing populist movements and figures like Trump, Putin, and Musk. Instead, he proposes analyzing these phenomena through the lens of what he calls "neopaganism."
>>>
>>> - He identifies four key dimensions of neopaganism: value, sacrifice, charisma, and oracular truth.
>>>
>>> - On value, he argues today's oligarchs hoard wealth as if they can "take it with them" after death, similar to pagan burial practices.
>>>
>>> - On sacrifice, he contends oligarchs are sacrificing the earth itself through climate change, taking the world down with them. Putin's invasion of Ukraine also has a sacrificial logic.
>>>
>>> - Charismatic leaders tell big lies to create an alternate reality their followers live inside. Trump and Putin exemplify this.
>>>
>>> - Modern technology, especially smartphones, function as pagan "oracles" - sources of addictive but often deceptive truth that make us more stupid over time.
>>>
>>> - Snyder believes the humanities are crucial for reflecting on these issues and finding a way out of our current crisis. A narrow, failed rationality has enabled these destructive dynamics. What's needed is a richer, more reflective notion of human freedom.
>>>
>>> In summary, Snyder argues we need to understand the pagan-like irrationality and destructiveness driving our world today in order to have any hope of countering it. The humanities provide essential resources for this task.
> 

-- 
ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ

-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
archives:  5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
  1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/pkcs7-signature
Size: 5594 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20240802/08fb6386/attachment.p7s>