[FRIAM] When are telic attributions appropriate in physical descriptions?

[Prof David West]

I would disagree, in particular instances that getting high involves decoherence. Think Huxley in Doors of Perception, arguing that the drug 'eliminated filters' and revealed the Real Reality.

The collective—individual aspect you raise is implicit in Vedic-Buddhist metaphysics. The goal if for Purusa (the collective pan-consciousness) to escape Prakrti (matter) one individual achieving Nirvana at a time.

davew


On Wed, Aug 14, 2024, at 10:34 AM, steve smith wrote:
> On 8/14/24 9:30 AM, Prof David West wrote:
>> glen: " ... it's fundamental to biology for organisms to seek ecstatic states ... the oneness of the universe, the dissolution of the self, etc."
>>
>> There is a lot of evidence that this is true, and perhaps it is a behavior that could contribute to the, apparently, abandoned discussion of consciousness.
>>
>> It a creature actively seeks to get high, it is conscious.
>
> I believe it is "yet another" example of CAS seeking to "surf the edge 
> of chaos" with what we ascribe as "consciousness" to life forms (or all 
> forms if pan-conscioussness) being an (or the) highest level (meta) 
> expression of such?   Collective emergent consciousness of the 
> noosphere/biosphere being meta over that of each individual...  is 
> collective humanity struggling to "get high" while the individuals  
> variously "take care of business" and/or "get high" themselves?  Does 
> the collective flirt with decoherence better when the constituent parts 
> avoid it altogether or is there an "upwards/downwards" chaining of this 
> "getting high" that is the magic dust?
>
> in my recent response to Glen I think this is the "seeking mutual 
> coherence" I was referring to, deferring I think to the sheer 
> impossibility of actually doing so... "approaching coherence" is the 
> "getting high"?
>
> We normally associate "getting high" with deliberately *decohering* but 
> I think that is because we take implicit coherence/rationality as the 
> natural/default state.  Is it possible that seeking coherence and 
> breaking coherence are two modes of seeking Herb Simon's "nearly 
> decoupled systems"?  Coupled enough to share mutual interests but not so 
> coupled as to be predictable/boring?   Aka "the edge of chaos"?
>
>
>
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