[FRIAM] authenticity

[glen]

Very cool. I might actually read that book. I've long been a fan of what I guess are called "enactive" or "embodied" approaches to theories/models of behavior. Similarly, I think I agree with most of the "extended Z" theories I've read about, e.g. extended mind, extended body, etc. The way you're describing Brown's perspective sounds a lot like those. We're not merely social animals, we are so much more social than typical animals ... our brain power gives us such a wide array of bindings that our society *almost* completely constructs us, if not our bodies, but the way our minds bind to our bodies.

In my continued arguments about the differences between emotions and feelings, I try (and fail) to claim that emotions are endogenous, whereas our feelings are exogenous. Both emotions and feelings are affective, ie "about something". In a solipsistic simplification, feelings are about emotions and emotions are about the underlying physiology of the body. Beyond that simplification, feelings incorporate all sorts of semantics we learn from our surroundings. But because our brain allows us to easily translate from one context to another, emotions might include exogenous signals, distinguishing between basic and complex ones. And feelings might then be not only about purely endogenous emotions, but complex emotions *and* exogenous signals as well. What it means to "live in this society", even if the meaning is restricted to a very short time scope, seems dauntingly complicated, and overwhelmingly exogenously bound.

On 12/11/24 12:35, Santafe wrote:
> I think this last point:
> 
>> On Dec 11, 2024, at 13:35, glen <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The important cut point, here, isn't whether the impact is registered by any one person's mind or in their daily behavior. The cut points are systemic. Another eg: As a citizen of WA, I need not care about abortion rights in Alabama. I will likely not register the plights of those women. My intentional or accidental blinders and filter bubbles will protect me. But those (and other) plights will bleed through that disjointness and affect every aspect of every US citizen's life, whether they register it or not.
>>
> 
> is very close to the one Wendy Brown argues in her Weber-esque take on nihilism:
> hup.harvard.edu <https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674279384>
> 	apple-touch-icon.png <https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674279384>
> 
> <https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674279384>
> 
> The standard gloss would categorize nihilism as a frame of mind in the individual.  Brown wants to use the word to refer to a condition of living in the society, which can still have a definite etiology for which she is willing to put forward a draft, but which then induces responses and states of mind in lots of people, of diverse kinds.
> 
> Not to mean that Glen’s point above was directed toward nihilism per se.  Rather, that there are many things we are used to regarding as being “about” states of mind in individual people; but in an alternative take, one could say that related ideas are “about” conditions of living in the society, which still have polarity even though there will be idiosyncratic responses to it by people caught in it.


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