[FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We Thought

[Nicholas Thompson]

,

Great!  Baby steps. "If we aren't moving slowly, we aren't moving."   So,
can I define some new terms, tentatively, *per explorandum* ? Let's call
acting-in-respect-to-the-world, "awareness".   Allowing this definition, we
certainly seem to agree that the cat is aware.  Lets define meta-awareness
as acting i respect to one's own awareness.  Now, am I correct in assuming
that you identify meta-awareness with consciousness and that you think that
the cat is not meta-aware and that I probably am?  And further that you
think that meta-awareness requires consciousness?

Nick

On Fri, Jul 5, 2024 at 12:17 PM Jochen Fromm <jofr at cas-group.net> wrote:

> I would say a cat is conscious in the sense that it is aware of its
> immediate environment. Cats are nocturnal animals who hunt at night and
> mostly sleep during the day. Consciousness in the sense of being aware of
> oneself as an actor in an environment requires understanding of language
> which only humans have ( and LLMs now )
>
> https://www.quantamagazine.org/insects-and-other-animals-have-consciousness-experts-declare-20240419/
>
> -J.
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Nicholas Thompson <thompnickson2 at gmail.com>
> Date: 7/5/24 5:02 AM (GMT+01:00)
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We
> Thought
>
> Jochen,
>
>
> *I think the first step in any conversation is to decide whether your cat
> is conscious.  If so, why do you think so; if not, likewise.  I had a
> facinnationg conversation with  GBT about  whether he was conscious and he
> denied it "hotly", which, of course, met one of his criteria for
> consciousness.  *
>
>
> *So.  Is your cat  connscious?*
>
>
> *Nick *
>
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at 7:26 PM Jochen Fromm <jofr at cas-group.net> wrote:
>
>> I don't get Philip Goff: first we send our children 20 years to school,
>> from Kindergarten to college and university, to teach them all kinds of
>> languages, and then we wonder how they can be conscious. It will be the
>> same for AI: first we spend millions and millions to train them all
>> available knowledge, and then we wonder how they can develop understanding
>> of language and consciousness...
>>
>> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-mystery-of-consciousness-is-deeper-than-we-thought/
>>
>> -J.
>>
>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>> archives:  5/2017 thru present
>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>   1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:  5/2017 thru present
> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>   1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20240705/66a2bfd0/attachment.html>