[FRIAM] "I hope I'm wrong. But that text reads like it was generated by an LLM"
steve smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Sun Jan 26 12:17:45 EST 2025
Nick -
This is a rather eloquent (and/or disturbing?) vision of a potential
trajectory of human-machine fusion. I can't say I seek or approve to
get on that trajectory myself, but it is not so inconceivable to me as
to make me want to deny the possibility. If I wake up one day with said
"voice in my head" I shouldn't be surprised... I do already engage with
GPT (very occasionally) through the voice mode while in my car (because
bluetooth) and it feels eerily like I have a friend riding along.
As I consider my building project, and enjoy the vicarious experience of
watching a handful of young people (30somethings) on YouTube as they
VLog their own building projects, I have imagined slapping on a pair of
LLM enabled video glasses as I talk my way through the build with it.
I'm still not able to climb a ladder nor carry a bag of cement, so don't
hold your breath... but I *did* wonder as I considered that what it
would be like to have such a building "partner" in my ear the whole
time. If I put it off a year or two, the damn transformer models will
probably be able to realtime monitor my work from my POV and advise me
on many details which I myself am unaware of? Meanwhile maybe someone
will hack the Hypershell enough for the transformer to both sense and
effect my leg articulation... even with a weak drop-foot, maybe it can
compensate and all I have to do is mutter "up the ladder" or "get a bag
of cement" and I'll find my exoskeleton/transformer turning that into
action? Can't wait to see if Hypershell.hk follows up with an
upper-body exo to help me lift heavy beams on my own?
- Steve
On 1/25/25 9:08 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> I dunno, David. I have got some pretty eloquent stuff out of george.
> It's odd, the more I treat him like a human, the more human he
> becomes. (And the more he denies it.) I hear you all crying out
> forth the ineffability of the human soul, but I don't really see it.
> I think I am eminently eff-able. I figure if I talk long enough with
> George, he could definitely eff me. I think a time will come when I
> can turn on a computer and listen to the voice "in my head". It will
> not be generated by some interface to my brain, but rather by LLM as
> well educated in my habits of thought as am I.
>
> N
>
> On Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 8:58 AM Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
>
> Pieter,
>
> I applaud your use of AI to improve your writing. It is my belief
> that the*"proper"* use of AI, along with computers and computing
> tools in general, is to _augment_ human abilities ala Vannevar
> Bush's "how we may think," Douglas Englebart's institute, Alan
> Kay's dynabook, (the fictional Young Ladies Primer of Stephenson's
> /Diamond Age/), and Jobs' "bicycle for the mind."
>
> This is in direct contrast, it seems, to the sentiments of most on
> this list who think that AI should, and inevitably will, replace
> "inferior" human intelligence.
>
> I am curious if you see any question of "voice" in the AI improved
> text? For example, I took glen's question as nothing more than an
> observation that the "voice" of your post seemed to that of
> ChatGPT instead of Pieter—definitely not *"augmented-Pieter,"* as
> I believe you intended it to be.
>
> All of us respect Pieter and value his words. If, however, we are
> confused by "voice." it raises issues of how much consideration
> the writing should receive and how we should respond.
>
> Improving oneself, and one's writing, is a great goal. And we all
> have experienced examples of "I wish I had said that," or "I wish
> I had expressed that idea as eloquently as she did." If AI tools
> provide wordings that you admire, or feel express your ideas more
> eloquently, you should adopt them.
>
> Personally, I do not believe that AI can ever provide more
> 'eloquent' writing, only more precise or more complete writing. So
> I, again, strictly personally, would eschew using such tools as
> currently constructed. I would however, if I had the chance, use
> Richard Gabriel's tool, /Inkwell/, which, BTW, he emphatically
> states is not an AI, to enhance my writing. But Richard is
> primarily a poet and writer, despite his education and career in
> AI and computing, and he created /Inkwell/ expressly to be a
> writer's assistant. I have tremendous respect for Richard's
> writing and I know he uses Inkwell to enhance his intrinsic abilities.
>
> davew
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2025, at 10:48 PM, Pieter Steenekamp wrote:
>> I was surprised by the comment "I hope I'm wrong. But that text
>> reads like it was generated by an LLM" At first, I just thought,
>> 'so what?' But it got me thinking about how AI changes how we
>> communicate, which is really important to me.
>>
>> Here's my main point:
>>
>> I think it's okay to use others, whether they're people or AI, to
>> help me communicate better, as long as the ideas are mine and I'm
>> not copying someone else's work. If using AI to polish my words
>> bothers someone, we can talk about it.
>>
>> Here's some background on why I think this way:
>>
>> a) Learning to communicate is one of the best things you can take
>> away from school or university. For example if a student is
>> supposed to use her own words in an assignment, then using AI or
>> asking someone else to rewrite is wrong.
>>
>> b) In the workplace, we've always had people like personal
>> assistants or speech writers. I see using AI in the same way,
>> just a modern tool to help.
>>
>> c) Writing assistance used to be expensive because you needed
>> people. Now, AI can do the job for free, and that doesn't go
>> against what I believe is right.
>>
>> d) Your writing should still sound like you. So, I write
>> something first, then ask AI to make it better but keep it simple
>> and in my style, like, 'Please make this sound better but keep it
>> easy to understand.' I now realise I violated this previously and
>> will adapt.
>>
>> e) Maybe it's good, depending on the situation, to mention when
>> you've used AI in your writing.
>>
>> f) Here's a funny story: I used AI to help write a message for an
>> AI workshop, and someone complimented the writing so much they
>> suggested I should be a writer instead!
>>
>> My bottom line:
>>
>> I plan to add a note at the end of each message in this group
>> saying I used AI to help with my writing. If my using AI is a
>> problem for anyone here, feel free to ask me to leave the group
>> or simply remove me from the group.
>>
>> Note: I use AI to assist my writing.
>> .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. ---
>> -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>> to (un)subscribe
>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>> archives: 5/2017 thru present
>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>
>
> .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. ---
> -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives: 5/2017 thru present
> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
>
>
> --
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology
> Clark University
> nthompson at clarku.edu
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson
>
> .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-..
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoomhttps://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIChttp://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives: 5/2017 thru presenthttps://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
> 1/2003 thru 6/2021http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20250126/362ae9ce/attachment.html>
More information about the Friam
mailing list