[FRIAM] "I hope I'm wrong. But that text reads like it was generated by an LLM"

Frank Wimberly wimberly3 at gmail.com
Sun Jan 26 19:19:38 EST 2025 

Very good, Stephen.  More feelingful and poetic than my writing.  What I
wrote is more factual and specific.  I wish mine could have been a bit more
"romantic" but it was me.  (Grammar requires "I" but...)

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sun, Jan 26, 2025, 5:01 PM Stephen Guerin <stephen.guerin at simtable.com>
wrote:

> [image: image.png]
> Chapter 1: A Boyhood in the High Desert
>
> This is the story of my relationship with New Mexico—a bond as enduring as
> the rugged mesas and boundless skies of the land where I spent my most
> formative summers. My childhood was a patchwork of places and experiences,
> stitched together by the Navy’s pull on my father and my own restless
> curiosity. But no matter where life took me—California, Pennsylvania, or
> the Pacific Northwest—New Mexico was the constant.
>
> Outside the small town of Mountainair, on the edge of the Manzano
> Mountains, I spent the summers of my youth with my grandparents. There, I
> was free in ways that my life in naval housing never allowed. My
> grandparents’ home was both sanctuary and adventure—a place where I could
> roam for miles on horseback, rifle in hand, hunting small game and
> discovering the rhythm of life in the desert.
>
> Hunting was as much about self-reliance as it was a rite of passage. My
> grandfather would remind me to respect what I killed. A rabbit, cleaned and
> cooked by my grandmother, wasn’t just a meal—it was a lesson in gratitude
> and consequence. The land taught me patience and awareness, whether I was
> following a jackrabbit’s tracks in the sand or watching the still coil of a
> rattlesnake on the trail.
>
> Those summers were a paradox—wild and unstructured, yet deeply grounding.
> On the back of a horse, the wind in my face, I felt unshakably connected to
> the land and its history. My grandfather, a section foreman for the Santa
> Fe Railroad, would tell me stories of the railroad’s role in shaping the
> state, while my grandmother wove family history into the fabric of my
> identity. They spoke of the Nuevomexicano culture, of resilience and pride
> in a place where cultures met and mingled.
>
> In Mountainair, I learned to see life not in the rush of the cities where
> my father’s career often took us, but in the slow unfolding of the desert
> itself. Each canyon, arroyo, and sunlit stretch of scrub held a story. Even
> as a child, I felt the weight of those stories and began to understand that
> they were part of my own.
> Chapter 2: Mountainair Summers
>
> New Mexico summers had a rhythm all their own. Days began early, with the
> rising sun painting the Manzano Mountains in hues of orange and gold. My
> grandparents’ house in Scholle, a town that has since all but disappeared,
> was quiet in the mornings except for the sound of my grandmother humming as
> she prepared breakfast. By the time the rest of the house stirred, I was
> usually already outside, drawn to the landscape like a moth to a flame.
>
> The land around Scholle was untamed and endless, filled with arroyos and
> juniper-studded hills. It was a place where a boy could feel completely
> free. My days were a mix of exploration and chores, though I hardly saw the
> latter as work. Whether I was mending a fence with my grandfather or
> helping my grandmother in the garden, the tasks felt like an extension of
> the land itself. There was a satisfaction in being part of something so
> ancient, so rooted.
>
> Horses were central to my summers. My grandfather’s ranching background
> ensured that I was comfortable in the saddle from a young age. I spent
> hours on horseback, the reins in one hand and a .22 rifle in the other,
> riding across the desert in search of adventure. Sometimes I’d head toward
> the ruins of old pueblos, their crumbling adobe walls a reminder of those
> who had lived on this land long before us. Other times, I’d ride just to
> see where the trail would take me.
>
> Hunting was a rite of passage in those days. Rabbits were the most common
> game, though quail and dove were plentiful too. My grandfather taught me to
> shoot, but more importantly, he taught me respect. “Never kill more than
> you need,” he’d say. “And never waste what you take.” His lessons stayed
> with me, though they were at odds with the boyish thrill I felt each time I
> brought down my target.
>
> One summer, I had a memorable encounter with a rattlesnake. I had wandered
> off the trail to investigate a stand of sagebrush when I heard the telltale
> buzz of its rattle. The snake was coiled, its eyes fixed on me. I froze,
> heart pounding, as we sized each other up. It wasn’t fear I felt in that
> moment, but awe. The snake seemed like a living embodiment of the desert
> itself—beautiful, dangerous, and utterly indifferent to me.
>
> Evenings in Scholle were a time of reflection. After dinner, my
> grandparents and I would sit on the porch, watching the sunset give way to
> a sky filled with stars. My grandfather often told stories about his time
> working for the Santa Fe Railroad, tales of long hours and hard work, but
> also of camaraderie and pride. My grandmother, on the other hand, spoke of
> family history—of ancestors who had lived and loved and endured in this
> rugged land. Their stories wove together to create a tapestry of identity
> that I would carry with me long after I left New Mexico.
>
> Faith was another constant during those summers. My grandparents were
> devout Baptists, and Sundays meant dressing up and attending church. The
> fiery sermons and spirited hymns were a far cry from the calm Presbyterian
> services I was used to back home. As a child, I didn’t understand the
> theological differences, but I felt the contrast deeply. Religion in New
> Mexico seemed more visceral, more tied to the land and the struggles of its
> people.
>
> Those summers in Mountainair and Scholle shaped me in ways I’m still
> uncovering. They gave me a sense of place and a respect for the land that
> would stay with me throughout my life. More than that, they taught me the
> value of hard work, the importance of family, and the quiet beauty of a
> life lived close to the earth.
> _________________________________________________________________
> Stephen Guerin
> CEO, Founder
> https://simtable.com
> stephen.guerin at simtable.com
>
> stephenguerin at fas.harvard.edu
> Harvard Visualization Research and Teaching Lab
> <https://hwpi.harvard.edu/eps-visualization-research-laboratory/home>
>
> mobile: (505)577-5828
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 26, 2025 at 3:57 PM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Compare the result with
>>
>> amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
>>
>> It took me two weeks to write and contains about 100 pages.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> ---
>> Frank C. Wimberly
>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,++Santa+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail&source=g>
>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,++Santa+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> 505 670-9918
>> Santa Fe, NM
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 26, 2025, 3:40 PM Eric Charles <
>> eric.phillip.charles at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Frank,
>>> And think of how much easier it all would have been with AI assist!
>>>
>>> Nick,
>>> Can you ask George to give you the first 20 pages of a memoir of a boy
>>> growing up in New Mexico in <insert appropriate year range>, including the
>>> first few years and every summer until the boy went to university? Be sure
>>> to mention that the boy moved on from his rural beginnings to a much more
>>> worldly and high-tech career. Tell it you would like the tone to be
>>> "comfortingly familiar" for those who might have had similar experiences.
>>> Just for kicks, please also name the boy "Frank" :- )
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Eric
>>>
>>> <echarles at american.edu>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 9:49 PM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wrote a memoir about my life in New Mexico including the first few
>>>> years and every summer until I went to university.  People who read it who
>>>> know me say they can hear my voice when they read it.  LLMs were not
>>>> available when I wrote it.
>>>>
>>>> Frank
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Frank C. Wimberly
>>>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,++Santa+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,++Santa+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>
>>>> 505 670-9918
>>>> Santa Fe, NM
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jan 25, 2025, 7:24 PM Pieter Steenekamp <
>>>> pieters at randcontrols.co.za> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> DaveW,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate what you said.
>>>>>
>>>>> For me, the key thing is to keep our human qualities. I like using AI
>>>>> to help make us better, like when it helps with writing.
>>>>>
>>>>> You mentioned that AI can't make writing more eloquent. I agree with
>>>>> this for people who are already good writers. I've read some
>>>>> autobiographies where the writing is so beautiful, it's like AI couldn't
>>>>> match that. But there are others who might need help. AI could make writing
>>>>> easier and better for those who have good ideas but struggle with words.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just want to clarify one point from your message about "voice." When
>>>>> AI helps with writing, it's important that the words still sound like me,
>>>>> not like a machine. I saw your point about my writing sounding like ChatGPT
>>>>> instead of me, which wasn't my goal. I aim for AI to enhance my voice, not
>>>>> replace it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Improving oneself and one's writing is a great goal. We've all had
>>>>> moments where we wish we could express something as well as someone else.
>>>>> If AI can help make my writing sound better or clearer, I think that's good
>>>>> to use.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I agree with you, AI might not make writing more 'eloquent,' just
>>>>> more precise or detailed. So, I would use AI tools carefully, making sure
>>>>> they enhance my own style, not define it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pieter
>>>>>
>>>>> Note: I use AI to assist my writing.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 at 17:58, Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Pieter,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I applaud your use of AI to improve your writing. It is my belief
>>>>>> that the* "proper"* use of AI, along with computers and computing
>>>>>> tools in general, is to *augment* human abilities ala Vannevar
>>>>>> Bush's "how we may think," Douglas Englebart's institute, Alan Kay's
>>>>>> dynabook, (the fictional Young Ladies Primer of Stephenson's *Diamond
>>>>>> Age*), and Jobs' "bicycle for the mind."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is in direct contrast, it seems, to the sentiments of most on
>>>>>> this list who think that AI should, and inevitably will, replace "inferior"
>>>>>> human intelligence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am curious if you see any question of "voice" in the AI improved
>>>>>> text? For example, I took glen's question as nothing more than an
>>>>>> observation that the "voice" of your post seemed to that of ChatGPT instead
>>>>>> of Pieter—definitely not *"augmented-Pieter,"* as I believe you
>>>>>> intended it to be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All of us respect Pieter and value his words. If, however, we are
>>>>>> confused by "voice." it raises issues of how much consideration the writing
>>>>>> should receive and how we should respond.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Improving oneself, and one's writing, is a great goal. And we all
>>>>>> have experienced examples of "I wish I had said that," or "I wish I had
>>>>>> expressed that idea as eloquently as she did." If AI tools provide wordings
>>>>>> that you admire, or feel express your ideas more eloquently, you should
>>>>>> adopt them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Personally, I do not believe that AI can ever provide more 'eloquent'
>>>>>> writing, only more precise or more complete writing. So I, again, strictly
>>>>>> personally, would eschew using such tools as currently constructed. I would
>>>>>> however, if I had the chance, use Richard Gabriel's tool, *Inkwell*,
>>>>>> which, BTW, he emphatically states is not an AI, to enhance my writing. But
>>>>>> Richard is primarily a poet and writer, despite his education and career in
>>>>>> AI and computing, and he created *Inkwell* expressly to be a
>>>>>> writer's assistant. I have tremendous respect for Richard's writing and I
>>>>>> know he uses Inkwell to enhance his intrinsic abilities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> davew
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2025, at 10:48 PM, Pieter Steenekamp wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was surprised by the comment "I hope I'm wrong. But that text reads
>>>>>> like it was generated by an LLM"  At first, I just thought, 'so what?' But
>>>>>> it got me thinking about how AI changes how we communicate, which is really
>>>>>> important to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's my main point:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it's okay to use others, whether they're people or AI, to
>>>>>> help me communicate better, as long as the ideas are mine and I'm not
>>>>>> copying someone else's work. If using AI to polish my words bothers
>>>>>> someone, we can talk about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's some background on why I think this way:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a) Learning to communicate is one of the best things you can take
>>>>>> away from school or university. For example if a student is supposed to use
>>>>>> her own words in an assignment, then using AI or asking someone else to
>>>>>> rewrite is wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> b) In the workplace, we've always had people like personal assistants
>>>>>> or speech writers. I see using AI in the same way, just a modern tool to
>>>>>> help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> c) Writing assistance used to be expensive because you needed people.
>>>>>> Now, AI can do the job for free, and that doesn't go against what I believe
>>>>>> is right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> d) Your writing should still sound like you. So, I write something
>>>>>> first, then ask AI to make it better but keep it simple and in my style,
>>>>>> like, 'Please make this sound better but keep it easy to understand.' I now
>>>>>> realise I violated this previously and will adapt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> e) Maybe it's good, depending on the situation, to mention when
>>>>>> you've used AI in your writing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> f) Here's a funny story: I used AI to help write a message for an AI
>>>>>> workshop, and someone complimented the writing so much they suggested I
>>>>>> should be a writer instead!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My bottom line:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I plan to add a note at the end of each message in this group saying
>>>>>> I used AI to help with my writing. If my using AI is a problem for anyone
>>>>>> here, feel free to ask me to leave the group or simply remove me from the
>>>>>> group.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note: I use AI to assist my writing.
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