[FRIAM] projection propaganda

[Steve Smith]

I don't have any good referenes to the way that individual behaviour 
composes to group beyond the anecdotal (we've discussed whether a mob of 
angry people is an angry mob?) but I do think it is an important topic 
to understand.  I think it is a corollary to how emergent 
phenomena/affordances "stack".

It is our "habit" to describe particles at all scales in the same mode, 
as if the composition of "mass" and the energetics that they carry and 
are influenced by (strong, weak, gravity, EM) or coupled through are 
entirely familiar to our mundane intuitions developed throwing, rolling, 
bouncing balls around.   So if that fails in something presumably as 
cut/dried as physics (subatomic, nucleonic, molecular, etc), why would 
we expect it to work in the interactions of far-from-spherica cow-humans?

To harp on my intersubjective ideas,  I will claim (with little 
substantiation) that the fact that our interactions among humans are 
significantly moderated/defined/informed by our *beliefs* about one 
another and about the systems we've created and engage in that in some 
cases, those part-whole, metonymic/synechdochic conflations might be 
more motivated due to that mediation through belief/expectation than for 
example, excpecting a quark or a photon or even  neutron to "act" like a 
billiard ball, just because it is the convenient/common 
analogic/metaphoric referent?


On 7/3/2025 9:34 AM, glen wrote:
> I'm used to interpersonal projection. E.g. Joe Rogan's supplements vs. 
> his accusations re the mRNA vaccines:
>
> Rogan's Big Pharma Scandal Keeps Getting Weirder
> https://youtu.be/bogYSu3cCLg?si=U1Jk93n5DC4gppdx
>
> But I'm not habituated to the analogy of projection ("lady doth 
> protest too much") to national/party scale propaganda:
>
> Projection as an Interpersonal Influence Tactic: The Effects of the 
> Pot Calling the Kettle Black
> https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/01461672012711010
>
> I expect man-babies like Trump to accuse their targets of their own 
> misdeeds 
> (https://theconversation.com/why-trump-accuses-people-of-wrongdoing-he-himself-committed-an-explanation-of-projection-237912). 
> And to the extent that the right in the US (including SCOTUS) believe 
> in and achieve the unitary executive, the analogy between 
> interpersonal projection and national or group projection will be more 
> accurate. This is one reason why "projection propaganda" worked well 
> for Russia and China but not so much for the US, because the 
> difference in scope between an individual and a regime was smaller 
> there than here in the US.
>
> So given that one of my whipping posts is that we bear the burden of 
> showing how group behavior composes from individual behavior before we 
> assert that the map is in any way coherent, I can't use "projection 
> propaganda" without coming up with that composition. If any of you 
> historians or journalists have any clue sticks to hit me with, I'd 
> very much appreciate it.
>