[FRIAM] Socially Responsible investing in Weapons of Mass Distraction

[steve smith]

I defer to Noam Chomsky:  "Socially Responsible Investing is an Oxymoron".

I align with Glen's 3 bullet points.   If I were still in an economy 
where my "retirement investment" could be in the orchards I developed in 
my youth, the fields I cleared and cultivated, or the 
blacksmith/cooperage/cobbler-shop I put together and equipped and 
trained up my children or protege's to take over from me, then I would 
not be expecting the UoweMe's I hoarded in my mattress to seek-rent for me.

But we do not live as such.  My maternal grandparents did.  My parents 
who were born into the stock market crash and raised into the depression 
avoided all forms of credit and investment beyond US Savings Bonds and 
Savings Accounts in a local branch of a regional Bank (backed by 
FDIC).   They retired out of Civil Service (father USFS) and my mother, 
despite some paid work over the decades did not have enough quarters to 
get Social Security benefits.  The Civil Service retirement was "good 
enough" and the unmortgaged homes they developed (placing mobile homes 
on inexpensive land and adding sweat equity to improvements) lasted as 
long as they needed them before returning to salvage and landfill.    
They never hit geriatric poverty because they were extremely careful, 
but they were at risk, especially outliving their actuarial tables.   
They were predicted to live to 70 and 72 respectively but made it 15 and 
20 years longer...  there went MY (measly) inheritance!   Sigh.

I translated my UC (very well) managed retirement-pension into cash 
(IRA) when Bechtel took over LANL... it was not the best financial 
decision (I could have double, triple dipped?) but it got me out of the 
military-industrial-complex efficiently.   I let the bank (LANB)  invest 
it in ETFs and bonds as they saw fit and take some silly percentage of 
my portfolio off the top for their troubles.  When I finally took an 
interest in how the UoweMes I'd been hoarding were "invested", SIR and 
ERP and such were vague acronyms and LANB investors couldn't tell me 
much about "socially responsible" anything, but they did assure me "it's 
OK, don't worry your pretty little head".

As a tech wonk I decided I could *actively* manage my own UoweMe's 
better than my mattress and the bank could... and having actually worked 
with investment bankers (don't get me started on that anecdote) in Data 
Analytics/Visualization, I felt it was worth my effort.

What I learned was that it isn't that hard to let the "tide raise all 
ships" nor is it hard for that tide to recede and leave you stranded.   
But I also learned that it is easy to be a bad investor, where bad can 
be A)incompetent, leading the investor to lose money to better investors 
like at a poker table; or B) as in making money off of our societies 
worst habits: Destroying the Planet; Exploiting the Vulnerable; 
Manipulating the Masses; Undermining Social and Democratic norms; 
etc.    The big fat jump in tech stocks this last December was nothing 
more than an example of how to make money "being bad".

Like glen I hold 1 share in some stocks just to keep an eye on them, to 
have some skin in the game.  I made some book off TSLA, AMZN, GOOG, AAPL 
"back in the day" but was already getting out before the principles of 
those companies lined up behind the Felon in Chief and his lackeys at 
the Inauguration...  so now I hold trivial amounts just to keep track of 
them and remind myself that I "coulda" done well (or poorly) by throwing 
in with them, but I really don't need/want to do so.

I'm not so much for "effective altruism" I think it is a corollary to 
the Jevon's Paradox... why would I want to "rape, pillage and plunder" 
in one domain so I can turn around and help the victims of "rape, 
pillage and plunder" in another?   It is also a corollary to the "kick 
the can down the road" paradox where I keep deferring the consequences 
of my actions to others, and until "later".  For those without children, 
perhaps it is no skin off your nose as it is for those of us who push 
our problems into their futures for them.

My financials are pitiful compared to virtually all of the folks I 
worked elbow-elbow with at LANL for decades but I will not starve (my 
chickens' eggs and the spinach and maize and beans and squash I grow 
for/with them will sustain me for months at a time if all else fails).   
My parent's advice/example has me (now) without a mortgage, and except 
for the County Assessor's annual bite (to cover the costs of 
infrastructure I in fact DO depend on and appreciate) is significant but 
acceptable.    Some here might find my circumstances quite comfortable, 
other's might find them appallingly insecure...  if I outlive my 
actuarial tables like my parents, I may find myself living with my 
children or down by the river in a (rusted out) van-body.   There are no 
suitable ice-floes in the Rio Grande these days, but even that is an 
option...

If I don't outlive the stash of UoweMes in my mattress I hope to return 
the bit of land I live on that was carved out of the San Ildfonso Pueblo 
in the 60's back to them (or the Tewa Women's United or similar).  My 
children have sorted their own deals with the devil (employers, banks, 
etc) at this point so giving it to them when I kick would just be a 
distraction...   they know this about me and at least pretend to approve...

Besides our AI overlords will either "take good care of us" or "turn us 
into biodiesel to power the computronium pavement they will have layed 
over my homestead" by then, and as glen pointed out recently, I can 
always "just let it go".

Sincerely yours,

- Debbie Downer

On 6/25/25 12:31 PM, glen wrote:
> This one?
>
> Alex Karp - The Techno-Nationalist Behind Palantir
> https://youtu.be/QZrlfBE6UI4?si=FOQD9m8nxFQT_ugP
>
> As for moral compasses and the stock market, here are 3 possible ways:
>
> 1. it seems baked in to many people's desire to care for themselves 
> after they're no longer *useful* to society - in many ways, they can 
> frame this as "why would anyone with a moral compass rely on 
> others/strangers to take care of them when they're no longer useful" - 
> i.e. it's your moral duty to invest money somewhere,
> 2. my own reason - to stay aware/informed, and
> 3. so-called effective altruism, in particular the idea that one way 
> to help those less fortunate is to make enough money so you can give 
> away a significant amount.
>
>
> On 6/25/25 10:18 AM, Merle Lefkoff wrote:
>> Glen,  I watched the video you suggested and then it disappeared for 
>> some reason.  Could you please resend?  Thank you.  I found it very 
>> useful.  I try always to be optimistic about the horrors surrounding 
>> us as the systems we've known begin to collapse.  And I'm always 
>> disappointed.  And I have to ask:  why would anyone with even a hint 
>> of a moral compass invest in the present stock market?
>>
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