[FRIAM] Way off topic

Mon Mar 24 15:53:53 EDT 2025

O don't remember meeting them but thst doesn't mean I didn't.  I will
explore those links.  Thanks, Steve.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 1:48 PM steve smith <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:

> Frank -
>
> my sister and her husband (gringo from Wisconsin) moved to Seville Spain
> in the late 70s because it was one of the few places he could work as a
> (freshly minted) Copper Exploration Geologist in the global mineral mining
> context of the time.  They both became fluent in Castilian while there,
> then moved to Santiago Chile (same reasons, different era/hemisphere) where
> the Spanish spoken was closer perhaps to the Castilian roots than what I
> knew from the backwoods of W. NM and then the AZ/Sonora border.
>
> When I moved to Northern NM, there was a whole other spin offered via the
> Norteno dialect with ancient roots, some isolation and integration with
> Puebloan vocabulary and idioms.    When my sister and husband would visit
> or bring visitors from Spain or Chile it was interesting for them (the
> visitors) to haughtily correct various vocabulary, idiomatic or
> pronunciation "errors" which were simply regional dialectical differences,
> some rooted in 500  years of history.
>
> I don't know how broadly distributed the languages of colonial European
> powers are today... English and Spanish being the dominant in the new world
> with French a distant third along with Portuguese and Dutch just a
> smidge?   I think Pieter indicated that Dutch and English are
> equally/similarly represented in modern Afrikaans language/culture?
> Portuguese has an interesting play in indonesia and Belgian pops up here
> and there as well?  There must be an uncountable (idiomatically not
> mathematically) number of dialects and pidgens and creoles?
>
> When Matt and Janire (CultVR/4piProductions) first visited here around
> 2009, Janire (Najera from Najera, la Rioja, Espana, Basque Region) was
> almost completely unaware of the Spanish Colonization of this area.  New
> Spain was barely in her history.  The Spanish Embassy in the US funded her
> to do a book project documenting the old Spanish Trail, yielding a book,
> virtual tour, and a traveling exhibit.  She interviewed a lot of Spanish
> descendents along the trail from here to southern California.
>
>
> https://www.spainculture.us/city/washington-dc/moving-forward-looking-back-journeys-across-the-old-spanish-trail/
>
> https://www.artbook.com/9788416282197.html
>
> https://janirenajera.com/moving-forward-looking-back/
>
> I think you met them in the context of sfX during the heydey?
>
>
> On 3/24/25 12:56 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>
> My maternal grandparents were both native New Mexicans who lived their
> whole lives here.  My grandfather was genetically German but he spoke
> Spanish better than he spoke English.  Once he came to visit me when I
> lived in married student housing at Carnegie Mellon.  There were a couple
> of Mexican guys who were in some summer classes who had become friends of
> mine.  I introduced them to my grandfather.  One said to the other in the
> typical Mexican sing-song way of speaking "Ven.  Quiero que conozcas a un
> Gringo que habla mejor que nosotros"  (Come, I want you to meet a Gringo
> who speaks (Spanish) better than we do)  My grandfather said, "Habla como
> un hombre!  No Cantes."  (Talk like a man.  Don't sing.)
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,++%0D%0A++++++++++Santa+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail&source=g>
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,++%0D%0A++++++++++Santa+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Mon, Mar 24, 2025, 12:26 PM steve smith <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Steve:
>> Do all your friends and neighbors have the Red Cards no matter their
>> status? In fact, probably all of us should be carrying them.
>> T.
>>
>> For the most part,  we operate on a don't ask, don't tell basis.   The
>> only folks with known status to me are those who have achieved a full
>> green-card status after years of temporary work stints, etc.   The rest are
>> likely under various radars.   Often there is an adult child, likely born
>> in the USA who is peripherally involved. My Spanglish is good enough to
>> negotiate lots of work and social situations but nothing as sensitive as
>> legal immigration status and I stay far away from those discussions as a
>> matter of respect.   I try to telegraph that I am an ally but don't belabor
>> it.
>>
>> https://www.ilrc.org/red-cards-tarjetas-rojas#item-4477
>> <https://www.ilrc.org/red-cards-tarjetas-rojas#item-4477>
>>
>> I grew up with kids whose parents (more often grandparents) did not speak
>> English.  Not because they had immigrated from MX but because their
>> ancestors lived in the territory which became the US while they lived
>> there.   In the mountains Western NM, some of the parents (born in the
>> early 1900s) were raised in Spanish-only households among Spanish-only
>> social/family networks.   The kids grandparents likely were children when
>> their families immigrated to the area from the Rio Grande valley after the
>> Civil War (when the newly formed/available US Cavalry rounded up or killed
>> the native Apache living in the area).
>>
>>  In Southern (Douglas) AZ, many of these families had equal
>> representation on both sides of the border that was drawn with the Gadsden
>> Purchase.   Some living on the MX side may have been deported there during
>> the 1st world war or depression when there were attempts to displace
>> "mexicans" from the US without due process.   May have been part of the
>> "alien enemies" act activities of the time.
>>
>> I think the Gadsden purchase included the Mesilla Valley in NM (nod to
>> REC) but in my case it was the region south of Tucson in AZ.
>>
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