[FRIAM] Entropy RE-redux

Wed May 28 15:32:40 EDT 2025

sorry, typo above, it should read:

In your arrangement, the amount of molecules in the two cylinders will end
up being different.

Why?

Because

When you moved the left cylinder, it was closed so no air molecules entered
or escaped.
When you moved the right cylinder, the air port was open, so some air
escaped.

So

You ended up with two cylinders with more air molecules in the left
cylinder than in the right cylinder.

So

If you make the temperatures the same, the cylinder with more air molecules
must have a higher pressure.

So

The slider will move from left to right.

On Wed, 28 May 2025 at 21:30, Pieter Steenekamp <pieters at randcontrols.co.za>
wrote:

> In your arrangement, the amount of molecules in the two cylinders will end
> up being different.
>
> Why?
>
> Because
>
> When you moved the left cylinder, it was closed so no air molecules
> entered or escaped.
> When you moved the right cylinder, the air port was open, so some air
> escaped.
>
> So
>
> You ended up with two cylinders with more air molecules in the left
> cylinder than in the left cylinder.
>
> So
>
> If you make the temperatures the same, the cylinder with more air
> molecules must have a higher pressure.
>
> So
>
> The slider will move from left to right.
>
> On Wed, 28 May 2025 at 21:14, Tom Johnson <jtjohnson555 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Interesting query, Nick, but I am finding that it is always interesting
>> (so far) to (1) ask the AI to provide comments and footnotes with
>> hyperlinks of why it did what it did and #2 run the same query multiple
>> times in the same platform over set time phases and the same thing in
>> multiple platforms. Then compare an contrast.
>> Tom
>>
>> =======================
>> Tom Johnson
>> Inst. for Analytic Journalism
>> Santa Fe, New Mexico
>> 505-577-6482
>> =======================
>>
>> On Wed, May 28, 2025, 12:26 PM Nicholas Thompson <thompnickson2 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>> I am trying to "design" the simplest sort of phenomenon that demands the
>>> concept of entropy.  My first description left many ambiguities which I
>>> have attempted to correct in this revision.  Unfortunately, the revision
>>> has gotten horribly long.  Still, I am hoping that at least a few of you
>>> -- as you love me -- will respond.  Here is the prompt.
>>>
>>> Our goal is to juxtapose two bodies of air, of equal temperature  and
>>> volume but different histories  to see which can exert the most
>>> pressure.    Thus we hope to separate the effects of temperature, per
>>> se, from the effects of how that temperature was arrived at.   We start
>>> with a single cylinder of air at one bar (roughly  sea-level pressure)
>>> and 50 degrees C, which contains three slidable/peggable dividers.  One
>>> is installed at the exact middle of the cylinder, the other two at opposite
>>> ends.  All motions of the sliders will be quasi- static (infinitely)
>>> slow).  The cylinders and the sliders are designed to be adiabatic—no
>>> heat or mass can pass through them—except in the following two respects.
>>>  Just  to the right of the central slider are installed two ports, one
>>> through which air may be admitted or released and a second through which
>>> heat may enter or depart through conduction.     These ports will
>>> always  be assumed to be adiabatically sealed unless explicitly
>>> described otherwise.  Finally, on either side of the central slider is
>>> installed a temperature sensor so that we may know the temperature within
>>> the two chambers.
>>>
>>> With this equipment in hand, we begin the preparation of the two
>>> juxtaposed chambers.  On the left, we push in the slider until the left
>>> chamber reaches a temperature of 20 degrees C. and we peg it there.   We
>>> measure the distance from the left slider to the central slider  . Now,
>>> we open the heat and air ports on the right side of the central slider and
>>> we push in the right slider until it is the same distance from the
>>> central slider as the left slider is on the other side.  (Thus we have
>>> guaranteed that the volume of the two adjacent chambers is the same)    Now
>>> we close the air port.   Through the still open heat port we admit just
>>> enough heat  to bring the temperature up to 20 degrees C. and then we
>>> seal it.  So now we have, as planned, two adjacent chambers, of equal
>>> temperature and volume.  Now we unpeg the central divider.  Which way,
>>> if any, does it move and why?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> nick
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