[FRIAM] argumentation

[glen]

In the NY Mag article, it lays out the rhetoric of the new Krauss anthology <https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-War-on-Science/Dawkins/9798888457566> that runs right along the same lines as Sabine's anti-establishment (anti-big-Science) rhetoric. She fits into that crowd almost perfectly.

I'd place her with Pinker, both of which seem to fit Sartre's Waiter (where the person playing the role gives away their inauthenticity through uncanniness). In the wee hours of the morning, Sabine or Steven may sporadically wonder if their convictions are authentic. But most of the time, they seem totally convinced, high on their own supply. This distinguishes them from obvious grifters like Jordan Peterson or ultracrepidarian old white men like Richard Dawkins.

The whole collection of them provides us a broad sampling of what not to do when arguing some point. And of course, nobody's perfect. We're all just flopping around trying to do the right thing. So I try to turn the lessons back onto myself, even if I usually fail.


On 9/19/25 3:24 PM, Russ Abbott wrote:
> Just watched Rebecca Watson's video. She really lays it out. "Fearless" doesn't do her justice.
> 
> But I'm confused about your reference to Sabine. Would you explain. Thanks.
> _
> _
> __-- Russ <https://russabbott.substack.com/>
> 
> P.S. Here's my post <https://russabbott.substack.com/p/the-gun-that-killed-charlie-kirk> about Charlie Kirk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 18, 2025 at 7:42 AM glen <gepropella at gmail.com <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     The “Debate Me Bro” Grift: How Trolls Weaponized The Marketplace Of Ideas
>     https://www.techdirt.com/2025/09/17/the-debate-me-bro-grift-how-trolls-weaponized-the-marketplace-of-ideas/ <https://www.techdirt.com/2025/09/17/the-debate-me-bro-grift-how-trolls-weaponized-the-marketplace-of-ideas/>
> 
>     I've ranted about the retreat into informal reasoning because formal reasoning doesn't seem bushy enough to handle all the vagaries we need for wild type reasoning. A friend of mine who leans heavily to the right, but thankfully could not vote for Cheeto Jesus, made the comment that Kirk was "just trying to talk to people". I regret that I didn't try to correct him. I did remind him that I spent a lot of my off time in college surrounded by very aggressive Christians, trying to tell them how wrong they were. I mean, anyone who engages in that sort of thing in a place like Texas (where we were) should *know* they're likely to get shot. I was fine with the risk. And so should Kirk have been.
> 
>     Anywya, it seems to me his assassination is tightly analogous to the assassination of the United Health CEO. The *damage* Kirk has done to discourse is analogous to the damage people like Thompson do to health (not healthcare, but health). Is it the same? No, of course not. Is it analogous? Yes, I think so.
> 
>     And I know lots of people here are tolerant of Sabine. But she's right there in the pit of vipers with Kirk. This article may help put that in perspective:
> 
>     How the New Atheists Joined the MAHA War on Science
>     https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/new-atheists-maha-war-on-science.html <https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/new-atheists-maha-war-on-science.html>
> 
>     But any of us are susceptible to the attractor. And once you're in it, *how* do you extract yourself?
> 
>     p.s. As usual, Rebecca is fearless: https://skepchick.org/2025/09/charlie-kirk-and-the-empathy-paradox/ <https://skepchick.org/2025/09/charlie-kirk-and-the-empathy-paradox/>
> 
>     -- 
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-- 
¡sıɹƎ ןıɐH ⊥ ɐןןǝdoɹ ǝ uǝןƃ
ὅτε oi μὲν ἄλλοι κύνες τοὺς ἐχϑροὺς δάκνουσιν, ἐγὰ δὲ τοὺς φίλους, ἵνα σώσω.