<div dir="auto">It's usually obvious from.the context who/what "it" is. People do say "yo gusto" but like "yo te gusto?" Do you like me? And sometimes to be cute "tu gustas?" which is incorrect. These examples are not passive voice. "Se gusta?" meaning "is it liked?" is passive voice. Any disagreements will be referred to my daughter, the Spanish teacher.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">An improvement on my earlier comment "se me cayó la taza" would be "the cup was fallen on me" which is also passive voice and also makes responsibility ambiguous.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Every time I write "passive", Android mail client auto-completes it as "passive aggressive". </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Frank<br><br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">---<br>Frank C. Wimberly<br>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br><br>505 670-9918<br>Santa Fe, NM</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 4:43 PM Edward Angel <<a href="mailto:angel@cs.unm.edu">angel@cs.unm.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Literally it says \u201cit pleases me\u201d which is the passive voice leading to the question who is \u201cit?"<br><div>
<span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div>_______________________</div><div><br>Ed Angel<br><br></div><div>Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)<br>Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico<br><br>1017 Sierra Pinon</div><div>Santa Fe, NM 87501<br>505-984-0136 (home)<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span> <span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><a href="mailto:angel@cs.unm.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">angel@cs.unm.edu</a></div><div>505-453-4944 (cell) <span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><a href="http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel</a><br></div></span></span>
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<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Aug 7, 2020, at 4:30 PM, Gary Schiltz <<a href="mailto:gary@naturesvisualarts.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gary@naturesvisualarts.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">I'm no grammar expert, even in my native English, but I don't believe "me gusta el cafe" is using passive voice. It literally says "coffee pleases me". Comments, Frank? But then, I may be confused about what passive voice is.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 5:23 PM Angel Edward <<a href="mailto:edward.angel@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">edward.angel@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Isn\u2019t it a consequence of the routine use of the passive voice in Spanish as in \u201cme gusta\u201d instead of \u201cyo gusto?\u201d<div><br></div><div>The passive voice is pretty much gone in textbooks but I occasionally I get objections from Spanish speakers who claim my textbook can\u2019t be serious because I don\u2019t use the passive voice.</div><div><br></div><div>Ed<br><div>
<div>__________<br><br>Ed Angel<br><br>Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)<br>Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico<br><br>1017 Sierra Pinon<br>Santa Fe, NM 87501<br>505-984-0136 (home)<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span> <span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><a href="mailto:edward.angel@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">edward.angel@gmail.com</a><br>505-453-4944 (cell) <span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><a href="http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel</a><br></div>
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<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Aug 7, 2020, at 4:17 PM, Gary Schiltz <<a href="mailto:gary@NaturesVisualArts.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gary@NaturesVisualArts.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr">Despite living in a Spanish speaking country for 12 years, I still struggle mightily with Spanish grammar. This is mainly due to laziness on my part, as well as lack of necessity to immerse myself in the language (there are a lot of English speakers here, not to mention expat groups on Facebook in English). Still, Spanish is *so* much more consistent in all respects than English - pronunciation especially. But the reflexive verbs are still somewhat of a mystery to me. I've wondered exactly the same thing that Frank mentioned: does "the cup fell itself on me" and "the pencil broke itself on mf" represent desire to avoid responsibility? Maybe even blame the victim? Ouch! Your nose nearly broke my fist!</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 2:06 PM Tom Johnson <<a href="mailto:tom@jtjohnson.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">tom@jtjohnson.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Or the equally famous Spanish phrase, "The pencil broke itself." A phrase which you think I would remember.<div>TJ<br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><br>============================================<br>Tom Johnson - <a href="mailto:tom@jtjohnson.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">tom@jtjohnson.com</a><br>Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA<br>505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h)<br><a href="http://nmfog.org/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><b><font color="#0b5394">NM Foundation for Open Government</font></b></a><br><b><font color="#0000ff">Check out <a href="https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">It's The People's Data</a></font></b> </div><div>============================================</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><div id="m_8949732571617396949gmail-m_-908132491841530739gmail-m_2696335186146636138DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
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</tbody></table><a width="1" height="1" rel="noreferrer"></a></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 12:55 PM Frank Wimberly <<a href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">In Spanish if you drop your cup you say, "See me cayó la taza". A literal word--for-word translation is "The cup fell itself on me". Some people say this is an effort to avoid responsibility.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Frank<br><br><div dir="auto">---<br>Frank C. Wimberly<br>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br><br>505 670-9918<br>Santa Fe, NM</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 9:01 AM Barry MacKichan <<a href="mailto:barry.mackichan@mackichan.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">barry.mackichan@mackichan.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
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<div style="font-family:sans-serif"><div style="white-space:normal"><p dir="auto">Very much so. We hired a grad student a long time ago (he stayed with us until he retired). He wrote great Pascal programs. He wrote great Pascal programs in C++, and in JavaScript. The effect of your first programming language on style, idioms, and your feelings about recursion and encapsulation.</p><p dir="auto">\u2014Barry</p><p dir="auto">On 6 Aug 2020, at 23:24, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid rgb(119,119,119);color:rgb(119,119,119);margin:0px 0px 5px;padding-left:5px"><p dir="auto">Nah. He means more than that. Even ordinary languages predispose users to one kind of discourse or another. I assume that programming languages do the same. <br>
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