[FRIAM] SFI to Trump: The dangers of simplicity in a complex world
Steven A Smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Mon Feb 6 17:51:26 EST 2017
Nick -
I DO remember he tornado/vortex/swirlie discussions of yore, and in
fact, those were characteristic of the discussions I appreciated there
being here, just as I appreciated the "book club" you spearheaded on a
Complexity topic even earlier (what book was that?). I also appreciated
your "noodling" concept back in the day (not complexity as such,
excepting for the idea of emergent knowledge). I think your
contribution to this list, with your own specific background and as an
unabashed "innocent' on many topics is very valuable. I realize my
encouraging Doug in his juvenile responses (e.g. Swirlies) did undermine
your attempt to be serious about tornadoes, but it DID lead you to
meeting his Parrots I think? I have a fresh batch of Ravens at my
place who you are welcome to come engage with their vocalizations (no
wife now to limit my open invitations, just a vicious dog who I can
sequester with minor warning).
I agree that the deeper methods of Complexity Science ARE difficult and
subtle, but in many ways more intuitive and accessible (IMO) than those
of Relativistic and Quantum Physics. The *ideas* (as I think Glen
suggests) *are* pretty available... I would suggest that your own field
might be harder for educated laypersons from "adjacent fields" to grasp,
with even more reserved terminology? The fact that Complexity Science
spans (virtually?) all sciences ( and engineering and technology ) means
it *must* be accessible laterally. There is little to no value to
stovepiping it. I know some folks have made quite a living off of
making Complexity Science arcane... but far from all. I think SFI does
a very good job in general.
I don't know what it can be done in this forum, but perhaps. I think
that what complexityexplorer.org (thanks to SFI) is trying to do is
exactly what you are seeking? I sat in on the first round (online )
but it was "remedial" enough for me to not hold my interest, though I
*do* much need the thoroughness involved. I had hoped there would form
a "study group" here to follow the classes and have lots of peer
support. I don't remember their being much engagement in this forum?
I will agree with Glen's observation that a "complexity perspective" is
ever-present here, which is part of what makes it all worthwhile. I
withdraw any implication that we need more use of arcane complexity
science terminology, or that what we *do* have here isn't appreciated.
- Steve
On 2/6/17 1:39 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> Steve Smith wrote:
>
> I feel we *don't* discuss as many Complexity topics as I would like,
>
> I will talk about tornado formation, a n y t I m e, Steve.
>
> Seriously, I wonder if the fact that we have stopped talking about
> complexity might have something to do with the state of play of that
> field. I reached a point where I began to feel that complexity-talk
> went on in some alternative universe that, without the initiation and
> the golden key, I was never going to enter. You will remember, Steve,
> that I worked for a couple of years, trying to make a translation
> between that universe and mine, and was never able to manage it. When
> the working vocabulary of a science is inaccessible to a diligent,
> moderately intelligent, practitioner of neighboring sciences, does
> that not limit the development of that science?
>
> By the way, when I first came out here I tried to make contact with
> SFI. At the time, I wrote up the result in a /satirical/ account,
> which, to be honest, reeks of sour grapes. Still, in the present
> context you might find it funny. See attached.
>
> Omitted from this account was one life-changing exchange with Dr. X.
> At some point, during Phase II of The Ritual Reception and Rejection,
> I asked him, “Given that The Institute is such a charismatic place,
> and given that you have no room, where do all the people go when you
> reject them? There must be a lot of them around Santa Fe.”
>
> I am everlastingly grateful for his response. He thought a very long
> minute and then scribbled on a Posty and handed it to me. It said,
> “Call Steve Guerin. FRIAM.”
>
> The rest is history.
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>
> *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven
> A Smith
> *Sent:* Monday, February 06, 2017 12:00 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] SFI to Trump: The dangers of simplicity in a
> complex world
>
> I appreciate FriAM, even though I don't attend Friday Congregation
> very often, or even WedTech Congregation either! The *active* voices
> here are familiar and even though I may have a lot of different
> perspectives and opinions, I truly value what I hear here, and more
> than anything I look forward to one of our *many* lurkers chiming in.
>
> I feel we *don't* discuss as many Complexity topics as I would like,
> but I like knowing that there are many with strong Complexity
> backgrounds engaged in the more sociopolitical discussions that seem
> to dominate.
>
> Since I feel a bit like Glen in his statement "Since I don't belong
> anywhere, I obviously didn't belong there"... I'm enough used to
> being an outsider or an interloper that I generally can slip into
> alien situations and keep a low enough profile to not raise alarm or
> cause disruption.
>
> This forum, being asynchronous and as Gary points out, "easy to
> delete" feels like a safe place FOR me to speak up above a hushed
> whisper... so I value it as well.
>
> SFx was intended to be a more open and welcoming environment to share
> the wealth from... I think we did a moderately good job much of the
> time, but still missed the mark in at least developing a sustainable
> funding model.
>
> - Steve
>
> On 2/6/17 11:49 AM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
>
> It goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway - FRIAM, both the
> list and the actual gathering at the "mothership" of Santa Fe -
> has always felt welcoming. It's the only list I've stayed with
> since its inception. I don't know if there are any SFI lurkers
> here, but there do seem to be a lot of people who "used to" have
> some association with it rather than those who are actively
> involved with it. I've no idea how much is due to a bit of
> snobbery vs. just simply the fact that the list is open to such a
> wide range of stuff that isn't interesting to folks interested
> purely in complexity. I find it easy enough just to delete
> messages when I get too overwhelmed, confident that they are
> archived so I can eventually look them over.
>
> On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 1:34 PM, glen ☣ <gepropella at gmail.com
> <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> FWIW, I felt fairly unwelcome soon after I left to work in our
> Agua Fria office (1997 maybe), perhaps since I was merely a
> research technician rather than any sort of academic. Then it
> got even worse when they expanded down the hill by staffing a
> receptionist. I always managed to sneak past without being
> grilled to badly ... but the concept was clear: do you belong
> here? Since I don't belong anywhere, I obviously didn't
> belong there. 8^)
>
>
> On 02/05/2017 03:40 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> > That makes sense but I just sat there quietly and listened. No
> > self-aggrandizing questions. And then I left.
>
> --
> ☣glen
>
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