[FRIAM] Complexity Science for (us) Dummies
Steven A Smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Mon Feb 6 22:47:52 EST 2017
Take a gander, you old gander <grin>... there may be something in there
worthy of a little study. It is rich with material... but maybe
overwhelmingly so!
On 2/6/17 8:43 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>
> Owen, Steve,
>
> I am embarrassed to say, this is the first I have heard of it.
>
> It may be too late for this old bird.
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>
> *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Owen
> Densmore
> *Sent:* Monday, February 06, 2017 8:25 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Complexity Science for (us) Dummies
>
> Complexity Explorer is the best thing SFI has produced, other than
> perhaps there video library of talks. For me, anyway.
>
> -- Owen
>
> On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Steven A Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com
> <mailto:sasmyth at swcp.com>> wrote:
>
> Nick -
>
> Vortices aside, I just checked the Syllabi of the Complexity
> Explorer and find that there are MANY courses that might be of
> interest to you. Do you find the language in them out of reach?
> Would having a small study group online help with that? Are
> there any particular topics there (
> https://www.complexityexplorer.org/explore/syllabi) of interest?
>
> - Steve
>
> On 2/6/17 3:51 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
>
> Nick -
>
> I DO remember he tornado/vortex/swirlie discussions of yore,
> and in fact, those were characteristic of the discussions I
> appreciated there being here, just as I appreciated the "book
> club" you spearheaded on a Complexity topic even earlier (what
> book was that?). I also appreciated your "noodling" concept
> back in the day (not complexity as such, excepting for the
> idea of emergent knowledge). I think your contribution to
> this list, with your own specific background and as an
> unabashed "innocent' on many topics is very valuable. I
> realize my encouraging Doug in his juvenile responses (e.g.
> Swirlies) did undermine your attempt to be serious about
> tornadoes, but it DID lead you to meeting his Parrots I
> think? I have a fresh batch of Ravens at my place who you
> are welcome to come engage with their vocalizations (no wife
> now to limit my open invitations, just a vicious dog who I can
> sequester with minor warning).
>
> I agree that the deeper methods of Complexity Science ARE
> difficult and subtle, but in many ways more intuitive and
> accessible (IMO) than those of Relativistic and Quantum
> Physics. The *ideas* (as I think Glen suggests) *are* pretty
> available... I would suggest that your own field might be
> harder for educated laypersons from "adjacent fields" to
> grasp, with even more reserved terminology? The fact that
> Complexity Science spans (virtually?) all sciences ( and
> engineering and technology ) means it *must* be accessible
> laterally. There is little to no value to stovepiping it. I
> know some folks have made quite a living off of making
> Complexity Science arcane... but far from all. I think SFI
> does a very good job in general.
>
> I don't know what it can be done in this forum, but perhaps.
> I think that what complexityexplorer.org
> <http://complexityexplorer.org> (thanks to SFI) is trying to
> do is exactly what you are seeking? I sat in on the first
> round (online ) but it was "remedial" enough for me to not
> hold my interest, though I *do* much need the thoroughness
> involved. I had hoped there would form a "study group" here
> to follow the classes and have lots of peer support. I don't
> remember their being much engagement in this forum?
>
> I will agree with Glen's observation that a "complexity
> perspective" is ever-present here, which is part of what makes
> it all worthwhile. I withdraw any implication that we need
> more use of arcane complexity science terminology, or that
> what we *do* have here isn't appreciated.
>
> - Steve
>
> On 2/6/17 1:39 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> Steve Smith wrote:
>
> I feel we *don't* discuss as many Complexity topics as I
> would like,
>
> I will talk about tornado formation, a n y t I m e, Steve.
>
> Seriously, I wonder if the fact that we have stopped
> talking about complexity might have something to do with
> the state of play of that field. I reached a point where
> I began to feel that complexity-talk went on in some
> alternative universe that, without the initiation and the
> golden key, I was never going to enter. You will remember,
> Steve, that I worked for a couple of years, trying to
> make a translation between that universe and mine, and was
> never able to manage it. When the working vocabulary of a
> science is inaccessible to a diligent, moderately
> intelligent, practitioner of neighboring sciences, does
> that not limit the development of that science?
>
> By the way, when I first came out here I tried to make
> contact with SFI. At the time, I wrote up the result in a
> /satirical/ account, which, to be honest, reeks of sour
> grapes. Still, in the present context you might find it
> funny. See attached.
>
> Omitted from this account was one life-changing exchange
> with Dr. X. At some point, during Phase II of The Ritual
> Reception and Rejection, I asked him, “Given that The
> Institute is such a charismatic place, and given that you
> have no room, where do all the people go when you reject
> them? There must be a lot of them around Santa Fe.”
>
> I am everlastingly grateful for his response. He thought a
> very long minute and then scribbled on a Posty and handed
> it to me. It said, “Call Steve Guerin. FRIAM.”
>
> The rest is history.
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>
> *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf
> Of *Steven A Smith
> *Sent:* Monday, February 06, 2017 12:00 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com> <mailto:friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] SFI to Trump: The dangers of
> simplicity in a complex world
>
> I appreciate FriAM, even though I don't attend Friday
> Congregation very often, or even WedTech Congregation
> either! The *active* voices here are familiar and even
> though I may have a lot of different perspectives and
> opinions, I truly value what I hear here, and more than
> anything I look forward to one of our *many* lurkers
> chiming in.
>
> I feel we *don't* discuss as many Complexity topics as I
> would like, but I like knowing that there are many with
> strong Complexity backgrounds engaged in the more
> sociopolitical discussions that seem to dominate.
>
> Since I feel a bit like Glen in his statement "Since I
> don't belong anywhere, I obviously didn't belong
> there"... I'm enough used to being an outsider or an
> interloper that I generally can slip into alien situations
> and keep a low enough profile to not raise alarm or cause
> disruption.
>
> This forum, being asynchronous and as Gary points out,
> "easy to delete" feels like a safe place FOR me to speak
> up above a hushed whisper... so I value it as well.
>
> SFx was intended to be a more open and welcoming
> environment to share the wealth from... I think we did a
> moderately good job much of the time, but still missed the
> mark in at least developing a sustainable funding model.
>
> - Steve
>
> On 2/6/17 11:49 AM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
>
> It goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway -
> FRIAM, both the list and the actual gathering at the
> "mothership" of Santa Fe - has always felt welcoming.
> It's the only list I've stayed with since its
> inception. I don't know if there are any SFI lurkers
> here, but there do seem to be a lot of people who
> "used to" have some association with it rather than
> those who are actively involved with it. I've no idea
> how much is due to a bit of snobbery vs. just simply
> the fact that the list is open to such a wide range of
> stuff that isn't interesting to folks interested
> purely in complexity. I find it easy enough just to
> delete messages when I get too overwhelmed, confident
> that they are archived so I can eventually look them over.
>
> On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 1:34 PM, glen ☣
> <gepropella at gmail.com <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> FWIW, I felt fairly unwelcome soon after I left to
> work in our Agua Fria office (1997 maybe), perhaps
> since I was merely a research technician rather
> than any sort of academic. Then it got even worse
> when they expanded down the hill by staffing a
> receptionist. I always managed to sneak past
> without being grilled to badly ... but the concept
> was clear: do you belong here? Since I don't
> belong anywhere, I obviously didn't belong there. 8^)
>
>
> On 02/05/2017 03:40 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> > That makes sense but I just sat there quietly
> and listened. No
> > self-aggrandizing questions. And then I left.
>
> --
> ☣glen
>
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>
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>
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>
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>
> to unsubscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>
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> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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>
>
>
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> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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