[FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs

[Prof David West]

Nick,



As asked (effect, affect impose?), my answer would be no. A partial test
of the answer would be to see if the songs of birds living, even for
multiple generations, in arguably non-fractal environments, e.g. mid-
town Manhattan, lost their fractal nature. This test would not rule out
the possibility that the 'evolution' of songs was isomorphic to the
evolution of bird morphology AND isomorphic to an evolving fractal
environment.


A different way to approach the question might be to ask if "fractality"
is somehow a substrate upon which living things rely in order to be
recognized as "alive." Two things lead me to ask the question in this
manner. First, fractal geometry is used to generate digital landscapes
and digital life forms, e.g. trees, with results that are far more
"lifelike" than attempts based on other graphical systems — Ed Angel
should enlighten us here because it is his area of expertise, not mine.


Second, you have hear me talk of Christopher Alexander and his search
for the Nature of Order. He posits fifteen properties (e.g. centers,
boundaries, alternating repetition, contrast, deep interlock and
ambiguity, etc.) that, he says, are fundamental and essential to the
creation of built environments that have "liveness." It has always
seemed to me that the compositions created using these fifteen
properties would also be, in some manner, fractal.


Jenny might have ideas as to the second reason, but she is in Amsterdam
for six weeks preparatory to a move there in the fall and might not see
the question on the list. I have asked Richard Gabriel for an answer in
his role as another expert on Alexander.


davew





On Wed, Feb 15, 2017, at 03:57 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:

> Helloooo, List,



>  



> I would like to introduce to you Alberto Alaniz (who describes himself
> in the communication below).  I “met” him on Research Gate when he
> downloaded a paper of mine on the structural organization of bird
> song.  I noticed that he was writing from a Landscape Department, and
> I thought, “A landscape person who is interested in birdsong! He must
> be interested in fractals!”  And I was right.  So please welcome him.
> Steve please note?
>  



> The idea of his that I particularly want to hear you discuss is his
> notion that fractality (is that a word?) in one domain can effect,
> affect, impose? fractality in another.  So is there a relationship
> between the fractality which my research revealed in the organization
> of bird song and the fractality of the landscapes on which bird
> behavior is deployed.
>  



> I particularly wonder what Kim  Sorvig and Jenny Quillen and
> ProfDave think about this, but also wonder if others on the list
> could put an oar in.
>  



> Thanks,



>  



> Nick



>  



>  



> Nicholas S. Thompson



> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology



> Clark University



> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/



>  



> *From:* Alberto Jose Alaniz [mailto:alberto.alaniz at ug.uchile.cl]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2017 2:21 PM *To:*
> nthompson at clarku.edu *Subject:* Fractal discussion Landscape-
> bird songs
>  



> Dear Nick



>  



> I apreciate so much your invitation, so i really intrested in
> participate of your discussion group. I am a young researcher
> finishing my MS, and this types of oportunities look very good for my,
> specially if i can interact with other scientics. About your question,
> of course you can share my oppinion, now if you want i can writte a
> compleate opinion in extenso, and i will send to you tomorrow in the
> afternon.
>  



> My field of study is the ecologial modelling and the conservation
> biology, the last year i published my firsts papers in Biological
> conservation and International Journal of Epidemiology, the first one
> about ecosystem conservation and the secondth is a global model of
> exposure risk to Zika virus. Currently im working in ecosystems and in
> assessment of habitat loss in forest specialist species (with Kathryn
> Sieving from University of Florida).
>  



> *Alberto  Alaniz Baeza*



> Lic. en Geografía, Geógrafo & Magíster (c) Áreas Silvestres y
> Conservación
> Becario, Laboratorio de Ecología de Ambientes Fragmentados



> Departamento de Ciencias Biológicas Animales, U. de Chile



> Investigador, Laboratorio de Ecología de Ecosistemas



> Departamento de Recursos Naturales Renovables, U. de Chile



> Académico, Centro de Formación Técnica del Medio Ambiente IDMA



> +56996097443



> https://albertoalaniz.wordpress.com/




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