[FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs

Thu Feb 16 15:44:38 EST 2017

Nick,

The second point I made, i.e. about Alexander, Richard Gabriel confirmed
that Alexander did cite Mandelbrot and fractal geometry as
"confirmation" of his ideas about liveness arising from  proper
composition using the fifteen properties. Also cited the work of Nikos
Salingaros as a rich resource on this topic.

dmw

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017, at 09:17 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:

> Steve,

>  

> Birdsongs can be **temporally** fractal.  If curious, see
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/239787151_A_system_for_describing_bird_song_units
> .
> Please let me know if you can’t get at this, and I will post it
> another way.
>  

> By temporally fractal, I mean, for instance,
> ABABABCDCDCDABABABCDCDCDABABABCDCDCDABABABCDCDCD
>  

> Is that stretching the meaning of fractal beyond the bounds of
> propriety?
>  

> “Naïve” may not be the best word for what I am up to, here.

>  

> Nick

>  

> Nicholas S. Thompson

> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

> Clark University

> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

>  

> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven
> A Smith *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2017 6:06 PM *To:* The Friday
> Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com> *Subject:*
> Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs
>  

> Nick -

> This is one of your (wonderfully, and I mean that seriously) naive
> questions, and the naive answer is yes, they are surely coupled.   I'm
> very interested in "soundscapes"  so am often very aware of both the
> complex passive structure of most soundscapes (especially landscape vs
> urbanscape) and the active (birdsongs, garbage trucks, wind in the
> willows, sirens, ice-floes, domestic disturbances) elements.
> You are likely to have a better idea than I do about whether bird's
> songs are likely to be *formulated* in a more or less complex manner
> when in a complex "landscape".   I would guess yes to this.    I would
> guess that the three most relevant scales are roughly the scale of the
> bird's body, it's food-source, and it's natural predators.   How well
> can it hide, how well can it's food hide, and how well does it's
> predator hide.   I"m sure this is an overly simplified model.
> I think rather than fractal (literally), the more relevant concept is
> "with structure at many scales".
> IN any case, welcome to Alberto!  My own daughter happens to be a
> researcher in Flaviviruses, traditionally West Nile and Dingue, but
> now is drawn into the Zika thing...   I look forward to hearing more
> from you Alberto!
>  - Steve

>  

> On 2/15/17 3:57 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:

>> Helloooo, List,

>>  

>> I would like to introduce to you Alberto Alaniz (who describes
>> himself in the communication below).  I “met” him on Research Gate
>> when he downloaded a paper of mine on the structural organization of
>> bird song.  I noticed that he was writing from a Landscape
>> Department, and I thought, “A landscape person who is interested in
>> birdsong! He must be interested in fractals!”  And I was right.  So
>> please welcome him.  Steve please note?
>>  

>> The idea of his that I particularly want to hear you discuss is his
>> notion that fractality (is that a word?) in one domain can effect,
>> affect, impose? fractality in another.  So is there a relationship
>> between the fractality which my research revealed in the organization
>> of bird song and the fractality of the landscapes on which bird
>> behavior is deployed.
>>  

>> I particularly wonder what Kim  Sorvig and Jenny Quillen and ProfDave
>> think about this, but also wonder if others on the list could put an
>> oar in.
>>  

>> Thanks,

>>  

>> Nick

>>  

>>  

>> Nicholas S. Thompson

>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

>> Clark University

>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/[1]

>>  

>> *From:* Alberto Jose Alaniz [mailto:alberto.alaniz at ug.uchile.cl]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2017 2:21 PM *To:*
>> nthompson at clarku.edu *Subject:* Fractal discussion Landscape-
>> bird songs
>>  

>> Dear Nick

>>  

>> I apreciate so much your invitation, so i really intrested in
>> participate of your discussion group. I am a young researcher
>> finishing my MS, and this types of oportunities look very good for
>> my, specially if i can interact with other scientics. About your
>> question, of course you can share my oppinion, now if you want i can
>> writte a compleate opinion in extenso, and i will send to you
>> tomorrow in the afternon.
>>  

>> My field of study is the ecologial modelling and the conservation
>> biology, the last year i published my firsts papers in Biological
>> conservation and International Journal of Epidemiology, the first one
>> about ecosystem conservation and the secondth is a global model of
>> exposure risk to Zika virus. Currently im working in ecosystems and
>> in assessment of habitat loss in forest specialist species (with
>> Kathryn Sieving from University of Florida).
>>  

>> *Alberto  Alaniz Baeza*

>> Lic. en Geografía, Geógrafo & Magíster (c) Áreas Silvestres y
>> Conservación
>> Becario, Laboratorio de Ecología de Ambientes Fragmentados

>> Departamento de Ciencias Biológicas Animales, U. de Chile

>> Investigador, Laboratorio de Ecología de Ecosistemas

>> Departamento de Recursos Naturales Renovables, U. de Chile

>> Académico, Centro de Formación Técnica del Medio Ambiente IDMA

>> +56996097443

>> https://albertoalaniz.wordpress.com/

>>
>>

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>  

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Links:

  1. http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/
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