[FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs

Fri Feb 17 01:22:51 EST 2017

Hi, Carl, 

Good to hear your “voice” again? 

I think you might be the person best positioned in my life to talk to me about temporal fractality.  Are complex drumbeats fractal; and in what degree? 

Am I over stretching the term? 

Nick 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

 <http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Carl Tollander
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 10:49 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] FW: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs

Many birds do tend to migrate, so wondering what "stable environment" means here.

Also thinking there is at play the developmental  environment (extended time of egg-to-bird-of-the-now) of the bird, as well as the outer moment-of-the-song environment.   How does one talk about developmental self-similarity?    (we have L-systems for simulated plant growth and so on).    As I recall from back in the day, self-similarity has limiting scale horizons, where particular dimensions of growth or development dominate to support the self-similarity.

C

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:05 PM, Steven A Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com <mailto:sasmyth at swcp.com> > wrote:

Nick -

This is one of your (wonderfully, and I mean that seriously) naive questions, and the naive answer is yes, they are surely coupled.   I'm very interested in "soundscapes"  so am often very aware of both the complex passive structure of most soundscapes (especially landscape vs urbanscape) and the active (birdsongs, garbage trucks, wind in the willows, sirens, ice-floes, domestic disturbances) elements.

You are likely to have a better idea than I do about whether bird's songs are likely to be *formulated* in a more or less complex manner when in a complex "landscape".   I would guess yes to this.    I would guess that the three most relevant scales are roughly the scale of the bird's body, it's food-source, and it's natural predators.   How well can it hide, how well can it's food hide, and how well does it's predator hide.   I"m sure this is an overly simplified model.

I think rather than fractal (literally), the more relevant concept is "with structure at many scales".   

IN any case, welcome to Alberto!  My own daughter happens to be a researcher in Flaviviruses, traditionally West Nile and Dingue, but now is drawn into the Zika thing...   I look forward to hearing more from you Alberto!

 - Steve

On 2/15/17 3:57 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:

Helloooo, List, 

I would like to introduce to you Alberto Alaniz (who describes himself in the communication below).  I “met” him on Research Gate when he downloaded a paper of mine on the structural organization of bird song.  I noticed that he was writing from a Landscape Department, and I thought, “A landscape person who is interested in birdsong! He must be interested in fractals!”  And I was right.  So please welcome him.  Steve please note? 

The idea of his that I particularly want to hear you discuss is his notion that fractality (is that a word?) in one domain can effect, affect, impose? fractality in another.  So is there a relationship between the fractality which my research revealed in the organization of bird song and the fractality of the landscapes on which bird behavior is deployed.  

I particularly wonder what Kim  Sorvig and Jenny Quillen and ProfDave think about this, but also wonder if others on the list could put an oar in. 

Thanks, 

Nick 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

 <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Alberto Jose Alaniz [mailto:alberto.alaniz at ug.uchile.cl] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 2:21 PM
To: nthompson at clarku.edu <mailto:nthompson at clarku.edu> 
Subject: Fractal discussion Landscape-bird songs

Dear Nick

I apreciate so much your invitation, so i really intrested in participate of your discussion group. I am a young researcher finishing my MS, and this types of oportunities look very good for my, specially if i can interact with other scientics. About your question, of course you can share my oppinion, now if you want i can writte a compleate opinion in extenso, and i will send to you tomorrow in the afternon.

My field of study is the ecologial modelling and the conservation biology, the last year i published my firsts papers in Biological conservation and International Journal of Epidemiology, the first one about ecosystem conservation and the secondth is a global model of exposure risk to Zika virus. Currently im working in ecosystems and in assessment of habitat loss in forest specialist species (with Kathryn Sieving from University of Florida).

Alberto  Alaniz Baeza

Lic. en Geografía, Geógrafo & Magíster (c) Áreas Silvestres y Conservación

Becario, Laboratorio de Ecología de Ambientes Fragmentados

Departamento de Ciencias Biológicas Animales, U. de Chile

Investigador, Laboratorio de Ecología de Ecosistemas

Departamento de Recursos Naturales Renovables, U. de Chile

Académico, Centro de Formación Técnica del Medio Ambiente IDMA

+56996097443 <tel:+56%209%209609%207443> 

https://albertoalaniz.wordpress.com/

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20170216/836b2933/attachment-0002.html>