[FRIAM] !RE: A million tech jobs unfilled
Steven A Smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Tue Mar 14 18:13:15 EDT 2017
As a one-time hiring manager at LANL, this was the bane of my
existence... the HR folks, bless their wrinkled little hearts, would do
this to me and to potential candidates. I'd get wind of a potential
candidate through the "who you know, not what you know" network and when
I looked for their resume, I would not find it in those offered to me by
HR. I could never quite tell *what* the mismatch was... though one
thing that bit me in the ass often was that HR screened very rigorously
for GPA and education level while *I* was always willing to go to bat
for a BS + credits and sometimes with a <3.5 GPA. They wanted only MS++
and >3.6 or 3.7 GPA.
Having been "under-educated" myself and working my own way through
college, *I* had a bias for those who were able to multi-task by going
to college, working a significant job, and sometimes raising a young
family. Those qualities often conflicted with a stellar GPA and a
completed MS.
I was a young hiring manager (starting at that in my late 20s) so I was
often interviewing and hiring folks older than myself. I think the
oldest hire I made was 60. He gave us about 7 good years, more than
most fresh grads stick their first job out for... YIKES! I just turned 60!
- Carry on
On 3/14/17 11:51 AM, Eric Charles wrote:
> Regarding the larger conversation: It will be interesting to see what
> happens if the tech-worker visas stay frozen. I suspect that program
> has encouraged the unreasonable pickiness that many companies display.
> If the companies really need employees, either there will be employees
> who meet the exact skill set the company wants for the price it is
> offering, or the company will need to broaden the search (either in
> terms of skill set or money offered). At some point, either the
> company finds people to hire, or it goes under due to sheer lack of
> manpower. Even if they do find exactly what they are looking for,
> presumably companies filled with only overly-specialized employees
> will show other signs of stagnation that are ultimately detrimental.
>
> In my limited experience, one of the disconnects is that the people
> evaluating resumes, and sometimes even the people doing initial
> interviews, often have little clue what skills are needed for the
> job. Some H.R. person interviews a hiring manager looking for a
> programmer, and the manager says "Well, what I'd really like is
> someone with 5 years of x, 10 years of y, and project management
> experience." The H.R. person writes something vaguely like that in an
> add, but doesn't know that 6 years of M and 4 years of N counts as 10
> years of y. And it all goes down hill from there. And that the manager
> would also have been perfectly happy for people with a variety of
> related skill sets doesn't matter for everyone who's resumes got flushed.
>
> At this point, much of my experience is applying for jobs in the
> federal sector, where regulations force the initial rounds of
> evaluation to be at arms length from anyone who might know what to
> look for. It is amazing the jobs that I have been deemed qualified for
> and the jobs I have been deemed unqualified for, during the initial
> arms-length stages.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----------
> Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
> Supervisory Survey Statistician
> U.S. Marine Corps
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Eric Charles
> <eric.phillip.charles at gmail.com
> <mailto:eric.phillip.charles at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> More re: age reply
>
> You will be at the mercy of state and local laws there. Federal
> laws specifically only apply to people being discriminated against
> because they are over the age of 40.
>
> I don't know much about more local laws around the country. I know
> that in D.C. age discrimination claims can be made by anyone 18 or
> older.
>
>
>
>
> -----------
> Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
> Supervisory Survey Statistician
> U.S. Marine Corps
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 4:45 PM, Jacqueline Kazil
> <jackiekazil at gmail.com <mailto:jackiekazil at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Re: age reply -- as someone does a lot of work in diversity in
> tech. I would consult a lawyer about the age response. That
> sounds like descrimnation to me.
>
> My husband is almost 40 and having same issue.
>
> Lastly. I will say that one of the best junior developers I
> hired was 55-ish or so. Their loss.
>
>
> On Thursday, March 9, 2017, Gillian Densmore
> <gil.densmore at gmail.com <mailto:gil.densmore at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> @Nick My recent experience for tech jobs as Owen(Dad)
> noted bonkers. My experience isn't unique either. I like
> using tech and have geeked out many times about tools like
> Dreamweaver, Dragon Speaking (or GooglesVoice To Text
> helper )
> What I've come across that's borderline insanity: Knowing
> how to read or (possibly) use I duno HTML, NODE -
> equipment (for example) and if their is (was) something
> like a Python for web that as well.
> basically looking at tech tools as a mix of companions and
> tools. Ok that's make sense.
> What doesn't?
> (this is a real example):
> I sent a company my resume and some examples I'd done, and
> (politely) asked that have the option to work remotely.
> The outfit was a company in florida. They got back to me
> saying literally:
> "You're skills and disposition are more than a mach for
> this this position. However We're only interested in
> people with PHDs and can also do Conversion to Funding
> Metrix to ensure our Metrix for Success are properly being
> met."
> (I had to think: Was that even English?)
> I also had someone say: "Due to your stage of life we've
> persude other younger and also qualified candidates" (So
> Because of being 30 or so you turned me down for a teen in
> College I thought"
>
> Sufficed to say these example made me realise several
> things: I really want to get my Tech/Science/Art play nice
> and work together project going again, and eventually off
> the ground.
> And that a certain type person is just bonkers.
> Some tools are a bit to quirky. WordPress is a good
> example. Ever tried changing one background for a
> (similar) or even entirely different one? That's an
> incredibly basic thing. Yet (to me) but many themese make
> it a PITA
> Android , that Dough Roberts for as kick but he has ranted
> (infamously) to here and to google and his blog(S?) about
> because it's super quirky.
>
> Sufficed to say quirky and has personality is one thing.
> But I simply don't get this giant jerk attitude that
> people have now (tech or otherwise).
>
> I'm stuck on the part of no how-to for jobs. Like I've
> said here(and to my bosses) Just because Xplace does it
> one way. Their might be a good reason to do it some
> otherway at Acme as compared to WilyCayoties. And not
> everyone has a head for or a desire to write in raw code
> but likes to use tools.
> Besides...might not always be needed if a doodad already
> exists.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Nick Thompson
> <nickthompson at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Hi, Owen,
>
> Thanks. I have learned a lot from the blow back.
> Apparently Tech jobs have become more siloed in the
> last decade, so people can get stuck in their soloes
> (Silos? Is that like “potato”?) I have a relative
> who may be stuck in a silo, even while living in
> Eastern Mass. I would think that such a person would
> take a few months off and do a certificate or a crash
> course somewhere and emerge in another silo, if the
> opportunity is as great as it seems to be. I used to
> tell my undergraduates, “smart, */flexible/* people
> will always find work.” Is that wrong?
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>
> *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Owen Densmore
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2017 10:11 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
> Group <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] !RE: A million tech jobs unfilled
>
> I don't think you made a mistake, Nick. I think it is
> easy for the news to make such a broad statement by
> simply being very inclusive. *Everybody* needs to be
> tech-savvy in any job nowadays.
>
> For me, the more important issue is companies making
> such a loud noise about their labor force
> difficulties. It's certainly real to them! They are
> not lying, but may be being absurdly specific about
> their requirements. The evolution of the the tech
> culture is always surprising me.
>
> So no worries.
>
> -- Owen
>
>
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>
> --
> Jacqueline Kazil | @jackiekazil
>
>
>
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