[FRIAM] Any non-biological complex systems?

[Frank Wimberly]

My app that reads emails aloud, as they arrive, says "a new email has
arrived from Glen biohazard".  I finally see why.

Frank Wimberly
Phone (505) 670-9918

On May 26, 2017 6:08 PM, "glen ☣" <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 05/26/2017 04:54 PM, Stephen Guerin wrote:
> > I am listening to Russ. I do think he's defining a sub-class of complex
> > systems (eg living systems). I would like to keep the definition of
> > "complex systems" broader than that though.
>
> OK.  But I don't think he's necessarily _asserting_ that only living
> systems are complex systems.  He's just asking the question and engaging in
> a discussion wherein we might be able to refine his sub-category so that it
> includes physical systems.
>
> > I understand the subtle distinction your trying to make. I would say the
> > full phase space of a *complex system* has narrow critical regimes in
> their
> > behavior (phase) space where *complex behavior* is observed as the
> control
> > parameters are swept through the phase transition. In the critical regime
> > we see complex behavior like sensitivity to initial conditions, critical
> > slowing down, critical fluctuations, power law statistics, long-range
> > correlations, etc. On either side of the phase transition (eg
> sub-critical
> > and super-critical) regimes, these statistics and behaviors are not
> present.
> >
> > That said, while the critical regime may be narrow in phase space many of
> > these system "self-tune" to the critical point but that's another thread.
> >
> > Agreed?
>
> Not quite.  If these systems merely contain subsystems capable of
> exhibiting complexity, then those 3 you listed are not complex systems.
> They are "subsystems capable of exhibiting complexity".  So, no.  They are
> not complex systems in isolation.  Russ' question, I think, targets
> naturally occurring, whole complex systems.
>
> Now, if we add the experimental apparatus that, eg, maintains a ZB
> reaction for a long time, then that _whole_ system can be called a complex
> system.  But there's significant meat to the controlling subsystem ... and
> we biological creatures instantiated it.  The case is the same with, say,
> glycolysys.
>
> All you need do is identify the circumstances where those three processes
> (ferromag, benard cells, BZ reactions) occur in nature and then we might be
> able to identify the systems in which they sit.  Then we can test them
> against whatever predicate we want.
>
> --
> ☣ glen
>
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