[FRIAM] do animals psychologize?

[Nick Thompson]

So, David, 

A tree, when assaulted by caterpillars, alters its physiology to produce toxins (at cost to its growth) and puts out chemicals to alert neighboring trees which do the same.  

On what basis exactly do you assert that trees don't feel pain.  

I stipulate that this question is asked by a person who doesn't think humans "feel pain".  There aren’t two steps, pain and the feeling of it.   

Nick 

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/


-----Original Message-----
From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Prof David West
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2018 2:28 PM
To: friam at redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize?


Weighing yourself everyday is actually an excellent way to promote weight loss. So too frequent, even hourly, measures of heart rate, glucose level, etc. Not because you do something in reaction to the measure, simply because it causes a kind of Hawthorne Effect, that forces you to intentionally  take, or refrain from taking, some kind of action - like eating that sixth doughnut.

I am watching plants move outside of my window. I doubt the plants are feeling pain, nor are they reacting to/ avoiding pain. True, most people don't eat pines, cedars, and manzanitas, and food plants, e.g. a potato, don't move much. But still, movement, even as an indicator or potential for feeling pain, seems less than useful.

Besides, pain is good: 1) "no pain, no gain;" 2) self-flagellation to bring oneself closer to God; or 3) "Pain is instructive." Baron von Masoch

davew





On Mon, Sep 17, 2018, at 8:00 AM, ∄ uǝʃƃ wrote:
> Not at all.  One can over-intervene with respect to any ongoing dynamic. 
> For example, some people concerned about their weight will step on a 
> scale every day and, based on what they see, either modify their diet 
> for the day or perhaps simply feel one way or another (good or bad).
> But such instantaneous measures are largely useless for health and 
> fitness.  It's the trends that matter.  And any intervention should be 
> done based on the trends and maintained for quite awhile before their 
> effects can be understood.
> 
> On 09/14/2018 04:57 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > Out of curiosity, does over-intervention concern apply to government behavior only?   One could imagine the same technology trends empower many groups and individuals.
> 
> 
> --
> ∄ uǝʃƃ
> 
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