[FRIAM] is this true?

Fri Mar 8 10:11:20 EST 2019

Also articles like this:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0010440X74900467

On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 7:41 AM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am using pice to text for this so there will be errors.
>
> dysregulation with Central mono and energy systems is believed to underlie
> the pathology of depression. Drugs that selectively inhibit the reuptake of
> central monoamines have been used clinically to alleviate symptoms of
> depressive illness Duloxetine a novel compound currently under
> investigation for the treatment of depression buying selectively with high
> affinity to both norepinephrine and serotonin transporters and lacs
> affinity for Mon Ami receptors within the central nervous system it has
> been suggested that dual inhibition of Moana ome reuptake processes may
> offer advantages over other antidepressants currently in use in preclinical
> studies Duloxetine mimics many physiologic effects of antidepressants
> consistent with other antidepressants Duloxetine by a cute administration
> elevates extracellular how do I have any levels well by chronic
> administration is does not it does not
>
> Duloxetine has brand name Cymbalta.
>
> Maybe you could search for does psychotherapy do....  ?
>
> Frank
>
> -----------------------------------
> Frank Wimberly
>
> My memoir:
> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
>
> My scientific publications:
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
>
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
> On Fri, Mar 8, 2019, 3:07 AM glen ∅ <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> To be clear, my question was whether therapy changed the brain in similar
>> ways to how antidepressants change the brain, which was the (unjustified)
>> claim made in the article.  It just seems like a fantastical claim to me,
>> if for no other reason than that there are different types of
>> antidepressant.  So, I might be able to justify saying "Different
>> antidepressants don't even change the brain in similar ways to each other,
>> much less to other, non-antidepressant drugs."
>>
>> So, therapy changes the brain and antidepressants change the brain.
>> Fine.  Are those changes similar?  And if so, how are they similar?
>>
>> On 3/7/19 8:41 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>> > Sorry.  See correction, below.  The point is, if the therapist
>> convinces the patient, by rational argument, to do the Right Thing,
>> whatever the right thing would be, we don’t tend to think of this as a
>> brain change.  But of course it is.  So, what is this odd dualism by which
>> some brain changes are REALLY brain changes, and some are not?  Thus, we
>> see again, as we must always see, (};-)] that brain state materialism is a
>> crock.
>> >
>> >
>> > Of course therapy alters the brain.  How on earth else could it work?
>> So, the question wouldn’t come up if people didn’t suppose that some brain
>> alterations and */[NST==>are<==nst] /*not REALLY brain alterations.  I
>> don’t know how those people make that distinction.
>> >
>>
>> > *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Frank
>> Wimberly
>> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 07, 2019 6:20 PM
>> > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] is this true?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Therapy and drugs can certainly change a life.  I had a friend who
>> worked for a research organization at the University of Pittsburgh.  He had
>> a Ph.D. in psychology.  At the time I worked in the Robotics Institute at
>> Carnegie Mellon. He became interested in my work and wondered if there were
>> opportunities for him there.  He investigated and was offered a position.
>> As a faculty member your job was to find a problem solve it and publish the
>> results and then seek funding for further work but usually you had the
>> freedom to pursue whatever problem you wanted to within reason.  He was not
>> used to this lack of structure and he became unhappy.  One night he called
>> me and was in desperate straits.  I did what it could to encourage him.
>> He entered therapy with a psychiatrist.  Over the months he became more
>> productive.  After making some contributions in scheduling and planning
>> software as I recall, he went to work for a startup and did some excellent
>> work developing visualization
>> > tools.  He was head of a group of a dozen or more developers and
>> scientists.  The group became a separate business.  After a couple of years
>> it was bought by a fortune 50 company and he was made head of the division
>> it became.
>> >
>> > I don't know whether or how his brain changes but his life certainly
>> did.
>> >
>> > Frank
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 4:58 PM Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm
>> <mailto:profwest at fastmail.fm>> wrote:
>> >
>> >     ketamine would not be the first drug that was utilized to augment
>> therapy. MDA, MDMA, even LSD were all studied as ways to enhance, optimize,
>> therapy.
>> >
>> >     An therapy, some kinds of it anyway, have also been demonstrated to
>> produce very mild altered states of consciousness — somewhat less than
>> hypnosis, somewhat greater than attending an old fashioned Catholic Mass.
>> >
>> >     davew
>> >
>> >     On Thu, Mar 7, 2019, at 3:25 PM, glen ∅wrote:
>> >
>> >         From
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/07/opinion/ketamine-depression.html
>> >
>> >         > After all, therapy and prescription drugs like
>> antidepressants change the brain in surprisingly similar ways.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >         Does therapy exhibit changes in the brain similar to drugs
>> (like antidepressants or not)?  I wish the author had provided a citation
>> or 2.
>> >
>>
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>

-- 
Frank Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
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