[FRIAM] words RE: words

Tue May 7 21:55:56 EDT 2019

I thought that was one of the requirements for emergence in one of the
papers in the volume.  But that was a long time ago and maybe I remember
incorrectly.  If it is then it raises all kinds of problems about how hard
the computation has to be to qualify as emergence.

Frank

On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 7:46 PM Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> Hi, Frank,
>
>
>
> No.  I suppose not.  Here’s where we need Hywel. Could we predict it from
> the shape of the water molecule?
>
>
>
> In general, I wish to avoid psychologizing concepts like “emergence”.  I
> don’t want them to be dependent on anybody’s knowledge, or lack thereof.
> So, I don’t want to think (I may have to, eventually) that emergence is
> based on our ability to predict, because, then truly, “Knowedge
> Extinguishes Emergence.”
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Frank
> Wimberly
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 07, 2019 7:26 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] words RE: words
>
>
>
> Emergent: hexagonality of snowflakes.  Can we predict that from water
> vapor and cold?
>
> -----------------------------------
> Frank Wimberly
>
> My memoir:
> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
>
> My scientific publications:
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
>
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 7, 2019, 5:58 PM Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> Marcus,
>
>
>
> Of course I see [now] why he was annoyed.   And I apologized.  And I won’t
> do it again.  And I have tried to explain (and I think Glen has more or
> less accepted) that my intent was not aggressive.
>
>
>
> Not sure how that relates to the question I asked you.  Are games
> instances in good standing of emergent phenomena?
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Marcus
> Daniels
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 07, 2019 2:59 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] words RE: words
>
>
>
> No, I meant that Glen is right and you are wrong, in spite of the
> superficial transactional evidence back and forth.    Actual quotation
> marks, and you can’t see why is he annoyed?
>
>
>
> *From: *Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Nick Thompson <
> nickthompson at earthlink.net>
> *Reply-To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, May 7, 2019 at 2:53 PM
> *To: *'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] words RE: words
>
>
>
> Sorry, Marcus, do I misunderstand?  Or did I misunderstand Frank?
>
>
>
> A pingpong game is not a proper emergent?
>
>
>
> Cf tennis and chess:
>
>
>
> To call a social interaction a
>
> dance is to stress the *peraction *of social agents. When agents peract,
>
> they act *through *or *by means of *one another. Each has a state
>
> of affairs toward which his or her behavior is directed, and that
>
> state of affairs requires certain actions on the part of the social
>
> partner. The behavior of each actor is therefore directed toward
>
> using the other as a tool to produce a particular desirable result.
>
> The dialectic between their peractions *is *the dance. From an observer’s
>
> standpoint, the best dances, like the best chess games and
>
> the best tennis matches, are those in which neither peractant entirely
>
> gets his or her own way.
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com
> <friam-bounces at redfish.com>] *On Behalf Of *Marcus Daniels
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 07, 2019 2:04 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] words RE: words
>
>
>
> No, not really.
>
>
>
> *From: *Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Frank Wimberly <
> wimberly3 at gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, May 7, 2019 at 1:43 PM
> *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] words RE: words
>
>
>
> To the outside observer, a ping pong game has emerged.
>
> -----------------------------------
> Frank Wimberly
>
> My memoir:
> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
>
> My scientific publications:
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
>
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 7, 2019, 1:38 PM uǝlƃ ☣ <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> No. Again, I would never say that. Why are you interacting this way? What
> are you trying to achieve by attributing things to me that I didn't write?
>
> On 5/7/19 12:36 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> > "Emergence is in the eye of the beholder." G. Ropella, 2019
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
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>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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>

-- 
Frank Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
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