[FRIAM] The Capital (was: capitalism vs. individualism)

[uǝlƃ ☣]

Interesting. I'm trying to steel-man an argument I can infer from you. And for that, the best I can determine is similar to Marcus' comment before and seems to be about exploitation of others and, in particular, the boundaries between mutually beneficial versus exploitation. The goat herding, rent-seeking scooter service, dammed stream, and opportunity costs of car "sharing" all seem to target that boundary.

But that doesn't seem to be (directly) about *types* of property. I'd agree that your A-D are qualitatively different. The qualitative differences I see are types of influence, not types of property. A and B both drain energy from the stream, but use radically different manipulations. C and D share the harvested energy, but use radically different methods for the sharing. All 4 seem to deal with the same types of things. I suppose the money implied by C might be in a different category than all the other things (turbines, dams, power lines, tanks, whatever). And I believe most people who talk about "means of production" disinclude money from that. So, from a property perspective, it's reasonable for you to distinguish C from A,B,D. But that's not what you're implying. You're implying there's a qualitative difference between all of them.

For that, my best attempt is to distinguish types of manipulation. Submerged turbines are clearly different from dams as ways to manipulate a stream. C vs D seem clearly different as ways to manipulate the ecology surrounding the stream. But the things being owned, called property don't seem different to me at all.

So, I still think the difference between "private property" vs. "private means of production" is ill-formed or hiding some underlying paradigm that would be better expressed in another way.

On 11/14/19 5:49 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:> A) I place a 1kW turbine in the stream running past my house and use the
> electricity to do something I like or feel is important.
> 
> B)  I dam up the stream and place a 1kW (or 1mW) turbine, holding back
> the water for later use, consequently denying the use/flow of that water
> to others downstream.
> 
> C)  I do B *and* I set up a storage/transmission network for said
> electricity which I then offer to sell/rent to others.
> 
> D) I do B, but with the full agreement/cooperation of everyone
> downstream of me and we share in the investment of time and other
> resources and in the benefits.
> 
> I'm trying to understand (with your help) what the *qualitative*
> differences might be among these....  are they simply on a quantitative
> continuum?   Do they all require a strong egotist sense of "self"?  Are
> the distinctions I am trying to suggest simply illusions, or projections?



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☣ uǝlƃ