[FRIAM] where are the "patriot hackers"?

[Marcus Daniels]

To me, a plausible future is one in which there is little convergence in inquiry because everyone is trained to study something novel and more of the research during a career is private.   In this world, anything that works and is exploitable for profit is fair game.   For example, one doesn’t need to get to the bottom of things to find a drug that works.  There could be upsides to such a world because convergent inquiry can be mixed up with convergent belief, and we get arguments like “Because Fauci says so.”   If people are in fear for their safety because there are no trust in public debate, perhaps they will try harder to investigate their world directly?  Maybe things need to get worse before they get better?

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of thompnickson2 at gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 11:39 AM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] where are the "patriot hackers"?

I think I disagree, Merle.  If we lose faith that there is a truth to be found concerning the matters of which we speak as scientists, we lose everything. When we speak as  poets, etc., of course, we relax that constraint.  But what defines science for me is that there are truths to be found.  I am pretty sure Glen also disagrees with me, and DaveW and maybe Kim, so you are in good company.   If anything characterizes the assault on society of the last 4 years, it is the undermining of faith in the notion of convergent inquiry.  The first domino to fall was anthropology, in the sixties, which led to a mayhem of political correctness and purges that destroyed the field.  Sure we have to respect people equally.  Sure we have to treat their metaphysical non-sense on a par with our own.  But some assertions are bat-shit crazy, and provably so, and if you entertain the notion that all assertions are equally true, you might just as well drink the kool-aid and climb the  ramp into the space ship, so far as I am concerned.   I will wave you a sad good bye because we everybody’s shoulders to the truth-wheel if we are to survive.

Nick



Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com<mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/



From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 1:15 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] where are the "patriot hackers"?

"True" things about the world beyond the reach of science must be included in the expanding dialogue, like a mountain that is also an earth being, or forest animals that are spirit masters of their worlds. We can think of them as other-than-humans, but they "exist" in indigenous cultures.  They are only "beliefs" in ours,  but for those of us who are "Animists", they are always present in the dialogue.

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 9:40 AM uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <gepropella at gmail.com<mailto:gepropella at gmail.com>> wrote:
So, I'm once again down in a rabbit hole over whether Dave's (cautiously backed by Kim) idea of a "science of the mind" is reasonable, wherein subjective/reflective techniques like psychedelic drugs or meditation can say "true" things about the world, particularly that may be beyond the reach of science. And there I am reading about Falun Gong <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong> and its "outlets" like The Epoch Times, which spew constant nonsense, feeding the delusional QAnon narratives:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-newest-trump-boosted-viral-maga-star-has-ties-to-the-epoch-times

And I'm wondering, where are the "patriot hackers" and Anonymous?

What happened to all that rigmarole about protecting the world and the internet from insidious sh¡t like The Epoch Times? Is it that ostensibly white hat members are combating shallow techniques like DDoS so well that the script kiddies who used to claim to be Anonymous are outmatched? Maybe Assange siding with Trump fractured the group? And what about the Jester <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jester_(hacktivist)>, who was arguably more capable than the large majority of hacktivists? Was he hired by the NSA and now works alone in a steel cage? Or has his mind been infected by the attractive conspiracy theories and persecution complexes we dorks are so susceptible to?

I feel confident that some of you have some insight! Please share.

--
↙↙↙ uǝlƃ

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--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org<http://emergentdiplomacy.org>
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

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