[FRIAM] detritus from vFRIAM

[doug carmichael]

There is ambiguity about what the self means and includes. There is a selfish self, a little self that is contained with us its own  bubble and there is the big self that includes the world and all of its connections. As Ortega says I am I and my circumstances

doug

> On Jul 3, 2020, at 12:24 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks, Dave,
>  
> What is the self-interest that is being served in such a system. What is the entity that “has” the interest. 
>  
> Or am I trapping myself in some stupid loop, here.
>  
> n
>  
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>  
>  
> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Prof David West
> Sent: Friday, July 3, 2020 1:19 PM
> To: friam at redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] detritus from vFRIAM
>  
> Nick,
>  
> People write software that self-modifies, learns to shape current actions based on the results of prior actions, clones itself in order to maximize its share of some limited resource (memory or processor cycles) vis-a-vis competing software.
>  
> This kind of software, once created and deployed, is entirely autonomous. Creators might send messages asking the software to execute a particular behavior, but such messages have no special status, they are just another part of the context to which the software responds. The field is called "evolutionary software."
>  
> To me, this is an example of a system, that once deployed, is autonomous and acting on its own behalf. It is not aware of any "goals of the whole" only its own will to "thrive."
>  
> Not sure if this satisfied your request.
>  
> davew
>  
>  
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020, at 1:06 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
> I tried to post this on the vFRIAM chat, but wouldn’t “take”, so I am posting it here:
>  
> “Don't do this now, but …. as a favor to me, could you-guys devote some of your shaving time this week to the proposition: "No system ever acts on its own behalf."  My intuition is that whenever we investigate a system that appears to act in its own behalf, we will find that it is pursuing a goal that is short of the interest of the whole, but which will produce benefits to the whole because of some property of the world in which it acts.  I would love to hear a discussion among people trying to design a system that acts on its own behalf. Can someone come up with a simple example of such a system.” 
>  
> I grant you that the question is not clear.
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Nick
>  
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>  
>  
>  
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