[FRIAM] alternative response
Steve Smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Sun Jun 14 18:10:27 EDT 2020
What about the roles/value of Design vs Systems thinking in working
toward collective solutions to large, complex and often abstract
problems. They are considered to be somewhat independent of one
another and not mutually exclusive. They are roughly associated,
respectively with Synthesis vs Analysis but not exclusively and both
have some chops in *avoiding common pitfalls" like failing to consider
unintended consequences
This was an interesting popular article on the topic:
https://medium.com/from-design-thinking-to-system-change/marrying-design-and-systems-thinking-e856c1a3ba1f
On 6/14/20 12:46 PM, Prof David West wrote:
> a draft from something I am working on at the moment:
>
> The future demands an approach to software development that addresses
> both complexity and scale. Complex systems are highly dynamic; a
> consequence of the need to rapidly respond to changing circumstances.
> Complex systems exhibit emergent behavior; characteristics and
> relationships that are not predictable. Complex systems give rise to
> “wicked problems” where any solution redefines the problem. Complex
> systems, like biological and social systems, are “grown” not “engineered.”
>
>
>
> Ultra-large-scale systems add a second dimension to complexity and
> present additional challenges, especially with regard control,
> heterogeneity, and integration of human and artificial elements of the
> system. The Software Engineering Institute at Carnegie-Mellon
> University authored a definitive study — /Ultra-Large-Scale Systems:
> The Software Challenge of the Future/. The report concludes, /“we
> require a broad new conception of both the nature of such systems and
> new ideas for how to develop them”/ and /“The task of developing
> dependable software at the scope and scale of ULS systems will exceed
> the capabilities of software engineering methods that have evolved in
> the first 50 years of computing.”/
>
>
> Within SEI and CMU, there was a debate, for a while, with regards the
> last sentence. One side, characterized as the "systems of systems"
> people argued that software engineering would evolve methods to deal
> with ULS that nevertheless remained true to SE. Eventually, they,
> mostly, gave up that position.
>
> Herbert Simon wrote, /Sciences of the Artificial /which captures the
> SE philosophy / mind set almost perfectly, and he denies that there is
> such a thing as a complex system.
>
> davew
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020, at 12:20 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com
> <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ah. So. Very interesting.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, software engineering is not a science. It’s a culture? There is
>> no right or wrong about it?
>>
>>
>>
>> Or, software engineer IS a science. We proceed best if we assume
>> that there will be, in the long run, a right and a wrong about it.
>>
>>
>>
>> What is the validator of rightness and wrongness in software engineering?
>>
>>
>>
>> N
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>>
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2020 12:16 PM
>> *To:* friam at redfish.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] alternative response
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank,
>>
>>
>>
>> I think the point of the herbalist is not that a herb will attack a
>> virus directly, but that herbals will enhance a person's immune
>> system in general, including ability to defend against viruses. That
>> is a little less farfetched than the idea, I think, your comment was
>> directed towards.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick,
>>
>>
>>
>> Not as a 'scientist' but merely as a professional and in the
>> discipline of software development. I have substituted my own
>> judgement against the mainstream of Software Engineering since 1968
>> when SE was invented. My determination to do so is simply the fact
>> that I am right and the rest of the world is insanely wrong. :)
>>
>>
>>
>> davew
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020, at 10:11 AM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Dave,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am always interested when any of our members – we who are so
>> hard on the “tin hat people” --, departsfrom scientific
>> orthodoxy. What determines when a scientist substitutes his own
>> judgement for that of colleagues in other disciplines? That’s
>> not a rhetorical question. And, having done that, why would on
>> ever go to a doctor again? What about Linus Pauling and vitamin C?
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anybody heard from Bruce? Did he make it across?
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>>
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
>>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2020 7:15 AM
>>
>> *To:* friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>
>>
>> *Subject:* [FRIAM] alternative response
>>
>>
>>
>> My time in Amsterdam put me dead center in the Vegan / Vegetarian
>> / Herbal / Alternative Medicine community, with whom I still
>> correspond. I received this book and a strong recommendation from
>> them. Most of the people in that community are following the
>> ideas in the book and claim high effectiveness.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a deep respect for acupuncture and Ayurveda and similar
>> traditions, but am highly skeptical of the "new age" stuff.
>> Nevertheless, in case someone is curious/interested.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Herbal Antivirals: Natural Remedies for Emerging & Resistant
>> Viral Infections*
>>
>>
>>
>> Take control of your health and learn how to use herbs safely and
>> effectively to prevent and fight off a wide range of viral
>> infections, including coronaviruses, SARS, influenza,
>> encephalitis, dengue fever, and more. Expert herbalist Stephen
>> Harrod Buhner offers this exhaustive guide to understanding the
>> antiviral properties of dozens of herbs, backed up by the most
>> recent research studies and findings. In addition to in-depth
>> profiles of the herbs, Buhner provides complete, step-by-step
>> instructions for obtaining high-quality herbs and preparing and
>> using customized herbal formulations for strengthening the immune
>> system and addressing each virus. Discover how these natural
>> remedies can help keep you and your family healthy and strong.
>>
>>
>>
>> davew
>>
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>>
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>
>
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