[FRIAM] God

[Frank Wimberly]

Russ,

Your views on these matters are very similar to my own.

Frank


---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020, 2:11 AM Russell Standish <lists at hpcoders.com.au>
wrote:

> Hi Nick - finally took a look at your paper. I didn't read it to the nth
> detail, but from what I understand, your scepticism about "ejective
> anthropmorphism" (nice term by the way) stands on two legs:
>
> 1) What exactly is priveleged about introspection?
>
> 2) That the process of ejective anthropomorphism starts from an
> identity between the target behaviour and the observers behaviour,
> which is structy false. The example being given of a dog scratching at
> a door to get in.
>
> In response, I would say there is plenty of privelege in
> introspection. For example, proprioception is entirely priveleged -
> that information is simply now available to external observers.
>
> In terms of the identity of target and observer behaviour, it doesn't
> need to be identical, but it does need to be analogical. The most
> important application of this skill is prediction of what other human
> beings do. People aren't the same, but they are similar - and human
> society functions because we can predict to some extent what other
> people are likely to do. I believe this is why self-awareness evoved
> in the first place. Something similar may have evolved in dogs, which
> are social pack animals. We have also evolved the ability to "put
> ourselves in somebody else's skin", taking into account the obvious
> external differences. So we can imagine being a dog, and wanting to
> get through a door, what would we do. We know we cannot stand up, and
> turn the door knob, because we don't have hands, so what would we do,
> given we only have paws. Scratching behaviour does seem a likely
> behaviour then. That, then is analogical.
>
> So, I'm not exactly convinced :).
>
> Cheers
>
> On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 04:32:05PM -0600, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
> > Sorry Russ.  It was in a hyperlink:
> >
> >
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311349078_The_many_perils_of_ejecti
> > ve_anthropomorphism
> >
> > Nicholas Thompson
> > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> > Clark University
> > ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
> > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Russell Standish
> > Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 4:27 PM
> > To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <
> friam at redfish.com>
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] God
> >
> > On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 09:59:37PM -0600, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
> > > Hi Russ,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hawking my wares again.  I am sorry but SOMEBODY has to read this
> > > crap.  The argument of this paper is that the flow of inference is
> > > actually in the other direction.  We model our view of ourselves on our
> > experience with others.
> > >
> >
> > What paper? What argument?
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Dr Russell Standish                    Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
> > Principal, High Performance Coders     hpcoder at hpcoders.com.au
> >                       http://www.hpcoders.com.au
> >
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>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dr Russell Standish                    Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
> Principal, High Performance Coders     hpcoder at hpcoders.com.au
>                       http://www.hpcoders.com.au
>
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