[FRIAM] IS: Research on Dreams WAS: hidden

[Frank Wimberly]

Dear Friam,

This reply  was unintentionally sent here.  I was answering Nick's "for
what mill?" question and I didn't notice that he asked it in an email to
the Group.  I apologize.

Frank

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 5:37 PM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com> wrote:

> For which mill:  understanding the patient's unconscious processes.
> Anything the patient produces including dream accounts, feelings toward the
> therapist (positive and negative), conscious fantasies (sexual or
> otherwise), accounts of childhood experiences, crying, rages, forgetting to
> pay the bill.  You get the idea.  It's all grist for the mill it's the most
> idiographic possible investigation of a human psysche I suspect.
>
> The transference including idealizing and devaluing the therapist,
> defiance, rejection, dependency, longing for merger, etc is the most
> important grist.
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Tue, May 19, 2020, 5:22 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, yes, but for which mill??
>>
>>
>>
>> If one accepts dream reports as proxies for dreams, what is the universe
>> to which one is generalizing?
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>>
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:41 PM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam at redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] IS: Research on Dreams WAS: hidden
>>
>>
>>
>> Memories and the accounts thereof are considered valid dream material and
>> it is well known that they have an imperfect relationship to the dream.  It
>> doesn't matter.  Even if a person makes up.a dream; it is grist for the
>> mill.
>>
>> ---
>> Frank C. Wimberly
>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>
>> 505 670-9918
>> Santa Fe, NM
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 19, 2020, 2:29 PM uǝlƃ ☣ <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> This is very close to what I was going to propose, except I intended to
>> say something snarky like: We *already* do nomothetic studies of dreams.
>> The results of which are gathered and used in sleep labs all over the
>> country.
>>
>> But it sounds like y'all are talking about doing a nomothetic study of
>> what people *say*, not what they dream. When someone talks about the
>> content of their dreams, can you trust them to tell the truth? ... to know
>> the truth? I'd argue, no. They're making up a *story* about what they just
>> experienced.
>>
>> The same is true about, say, self-reporting alcohol consumption ... or
>> whether or not you'd help a person in an argument with an abusive spouse.
>> Narrative is untrustworthy.
>>
>> On 5/19/20 1:20 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
>> > I settled on soliciting from my colleagues around the country as
>> variable a set of song samples and then published on what was true of all
>> of them.  The extremes of that sample also gave us grounds to say what a
>> mockingbird “could” do.  I suppose this was “nomothetic” research, but it
>> also had an idiographic taint.
>> >
>> > Could this sort approach be used with dreaming?
>>
>>
>> --
>> ☣ uǝlƃ
>>
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>

-- 
Frank Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
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