[FRIAM] Shorthands for Brain-stuff

[Russ Abbott]

One obvious quibble is to ask whether "A  determines the probability
density over ..." isn't just a way of substituting the word *determines *for
*causes*.

On the other hand, I like this approach. Another way to think about is that
changing A results in a change in B (or a change in the probability of B).
It's like A is something like a remote control for B.

What's especially interesting about this approach is that one is not
obligated to show how that change happens -- just that it does.

-- Russ Abbott
Professor, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles


On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 9:06 PM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com> wrote:

> No, but Clark Glymour might.
>
> Seriously though, our working definition of "A causes B" is that the
> occurrence of A  determines the probability density over the set of
> possible values of the occurrence of B.  There are many ways to quibble
> with this definition but we were able to construct a set of algorithms for
> learning causal models (in the form of digraphs) from observational data
> notwithstanding the quibbles.
>
> As I posted recently, Tetrad, the software implementation of those
> algorithms, won a SAIL award at the World Artificial Intelligence
> Conference.
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Sun, Oct 4, 2020, 9:42 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Frank,
>>
>>
>>
>> Causality is one of the great cesspools of philosophy, and I am in no
>> position to pump it.  For one thing, it seems to me that causality
>> statements are classic instances of category errors.  We speak of event A
>> causing event B, but, whenever we do, we are adverting to evidence that
>> shows that Events of Class A have been necessary or sufficient conditions
>> for event of Class B.  So, like any things, causality lives at a higher
>> level of organization than that to which we normally attribute it.  We can
>> say that a single event  of B following A is consistent with causality, but
>> we probably should be careful never to say that event A caused event B.
>> After all, this instance of B following A, could always, conceivably, be a
>> coincidence.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would love to know what your collaborators think of that assertion.  Is
>> this the kind of thing that George Duncan could dope-slap me about?
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>>
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 4, 2020 9:21 PM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam at redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Shorthands for Brain-stuff
>>
>>
>>
>> Having worked in the field of causal reasoning for many years I am
>> inclined to say that every event is both a cause and an effect.  But
>> perhaps you're using the words differently.
>>
>> ---
>> Frank C. Wimberly
>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>
>> 505 670-9918
>> Santa Fe, NM
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 4, 2020, 9:11 PM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> MGD>  In your model intents come from the *l.teleonomicus*, machinery
>> that follows the same rules of physics as everything else.
>>
>> *[NST===>Yes, but not just those laws.  <===nst] *
>>
>>
>>
>> What other rules?  There are rules that override physics?  How is that
>> lump of goo different from any other lump of goo?
>>
>>
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>
>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>
> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20201004/1269c5a1/attachment.html>