[FRIAM] Free Will in the Atlantic

[Pieter Steenekamp]

I agree you can't prove we don't have free will. It's like proving the
flying spaghetti monster false.

On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 at 17:06, Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:

> You had to learn how to generate alpha waves.   And the information
> processing associated my lucid dreams are just a function of previous
> events, which themselves were unavoidable.  A million of these examples
> won’t explain why mind stuff is fundamentally different from other physical
> stuff.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
> *Sent:* Friday, April 2, 2021 6:53 AM
> *To:* friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Free Will in the Atlantic
>
>
>
> Pieter quoted: *"the brain is a physical system like any other, and we
> have no more will to operate it in a particular way than we will our heart
> to beat".*
>
>
>
> *But we do have the ability, and can "will" our heart to beat in a
> particular way.*
>
>
>
> Not only that, we (at least some individuals in the world) can control
> pretty much every aspect of our "autonomous nervous system." I learned how
> to generate alpha waves in my brain while awake and talking. Researchers
> recently conducted cogent conversations with individuals in the middle of
> lucid dreams. Then there is all the "bio-feedback" data and practices.
> Hundreds of similar examples could be cited.
>
>
>
> Just because we don't, as a general rule, does not mean we cannot.
>
>
>
> Not saying anything in this post is an argument for free will — just that
> the quoted argument against free will is fatally flawed.
>
>
>
> davewest
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 2, 2021, at 7:10 AM, Pieter Steenekamp wrote:
>
> From a strict scientific perspective I accept that we don't have free
> will. I don't argue that we have free will. I accept, and I quote from the
> article quoted above:
>
> "the brain is a physical system like any other, and we have no more will
> to operate it in a particular way than we will our heart to beat". But...
>
>
>
> From how humans perceive our own actions, I assert that we do have free
> will of "some sorts''. Similar to some computer programs that also have
> free will of "some sorts". We all agree that AlphGo who beat Lee Sedol in
> Go does not have free will, it did exactly what the computer code
> instructed it to do, but it came up with creative play that the human
> programmers did not even know about. This is in my view also "some sorts"
> of free will.
>
>
>
> On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 at 14:15, Jochen Fromm <jofr at cas-group.net> wrote:
>
> Was it only 150 years ago when Charles Darwin first published 'On the
> Origin of Species' ? It feels longer. Interesting story from Stephen Cave
>
>
> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/
>
>
>
> -J.
>
>
>
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